Originally Posted by SoonerCoug (Post 135381)

And this somehow makes it better?

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug (Post 135373)

Don't you read the newspaper, Tex?

http://www.sltrib.com/lds/ci_7150554?source=rv

Originally Posted by jay santos (Post 135292)

This is probably the part that could have been left out. It's probably possible for a Mormon mother to be the most perfect Mormon mom that's ever walked the face of the earth and never cook, clean, or do laundry. And at a minimum, if a Mormon mother struggles with some of those areas, it doesn't mean they're not a good nurturer. My wife just blew this part off, but I can see this offending people. It offended people I know are good Mormon moms. I don't mind putting a high standard out there, such as LDS youth should be most chaste. Or LDS as a group should have most scripture knowledge, whatever. But the high standard in an area of cooking and cleaning is lame, I agree with the critics on that.

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug (Post 135457)

I still haven't had anyone reasonably oppose my criticism. They just generally criticized me.

Originally Posted by SoCalCoug (Post 135457)

I don't know about everyone else, but that was exactly the part that I've had the problem with. The inference there, whether intended or not, is that if you don't keep your house perfectly clean, or don't have a good, home-cooked meal every night, you're falling short.

This is the other part I had a problem with: "Mothers who know build children into future leaders and are the primary examples of what leaders look like."

As with the homemaking part, I felt this wasn't very sensitive to mothers who have children who make bad choices and don't end up as leaders - in other words, it perpetuates the "What did I do wrong?" stress that is in many cases unwarranted and unfair.

These are the only criticisms I've had with the talk that I addressed on Cougarboard, and I was still being reamed for speaking evil of the Lord's anointed.

I still haven't had anyone reasonably oppose my criticism. They just generally criticized me.

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 135393)

Not the Trib. I don't live in Utah, and don't make a habit of going to their site. But thanks for the link though. It was an interesting write up on people overreacting in places like "feministmormonhousewives.org". LOL. When I saw that address my first thought was, "is Dave Barry doing LDS now?"

And the referral to Benson's '87 talk as "infamous" was a nice touch. But you proved your point, nutty anti-Beck hyperbole does stretch beyond CG.

See, Lebowski, was that so hard?

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski (Post 135528)

For the record, I posted that link in this same thread, 1.5 hours before SC did.

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 135553)

So you did. Next time, just politely point that out instead of whining about it.

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski (Post 135554)

Must ....... resist........ comment..........arrrgggghhhhh........

(Lebowski gets dragged back up on the wagon. Phew)

Originally Posted by jay santos (Post 135292)

Here it is.

http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/d...775-27,00.html

Which parts do you think were offensive? She actually never really even tells women to stay at home.

My analysis of the controversial parts:



I like this. I would love to have this emphasized every conference.



The bolded sentence might be a little over-the-top. But I still like it. She's complimenting the mothers in third world countries that are making a sacrifice to come to church and get their kids dressed up best they can. It's not an indictment on those who don't. I'm sure there are moms with teenage boys that come to church with Beatles hair and a colored shirt that were offended by this, but I don't think they need to be.



I thought this was great and shouldn't offend anyone.



This is probably the part that could have been left out. It's probably possible for a Mormon mother to be the most perfect Mormon mom that's ever walked the face of the earth and never cook, clean, or do laundry. And at a minimum, if a Mormon mother struggles with some of those areas, it doesn't mean they're not a good nurturer. My wife just blew this part off, but I can see this offending people. It offended people I know are good Mormon moms. I don't mind putting a high standard out there, such as LDS youth should be most chaste. Or LDS as a group should have most scripture knowledge, whatever. But the high standard in an area of cooking and cleaning is lame, I agree with the critics on that.



I like this. Teaching children to work is one of most important jobs as a parent and working together does that + creates quality together time.



I like this. The emphasis is on nurturing and creating home for spiritual growth. Very important concept and should receive a mother's best efforts. The education line is a little problematic. It's similar to the success in the world doesn't make up for failure in the home line, which applies to mothers and fathers. But education is a weird comparison. Would have been better to say "success or achievement outside the home" and leave it general.



Excellent, IMHO. Only a vague reference to working outside the home. Certainly not a THOU SHALT NOT. It's the principle that matters and she stated it.



Pretty innocuous and certainly inoffensive. She's not telling us the home is an MTC and things not fit for the MTC are not fit at home, she's just saying the home is the first place children are taught the gospel and trained to be servants in the Kingdom.

What people might be missing was how she built up mothers and the importance of the role.

My wife has been talking to other women, sisters friends, and this talk has come up a lot, some liked it and some didn't. She feels like it's the same issue with Mother's Day. Some great Mormon women have a guilt complex that's so large they can't enjoy Mother's Day because they have rabbit ears and look for something in the talks that shows they're not measuring up and then go into a pity party about it. That comes across calloused but it's not meant as an attack. Just an observation with a feeling of wanting to help the situation and help these mothers feel good about themselves while at the same time be able to acknowledge the importance of the role and examples of success.