Speaking of this, a few years ago I was having a discussion with a co-worker about the WNBA. He was wondering how much sexism and homophobia really play a part in the un-popularity of the WNBA. I argued that it was largely quality driven.

I then walked him through the following set of questions.

If the WNBA Champs and the NBA champs played each other, who would win? His answer was quick and unwavering...the NBA champs.

I then proceeded to lower the quality level of the potential WBNA Champs opponent, but his answer remained the same....

1. The WNBA Champs vs the last-place NBA team? (Men would win)
2. ...vs the NCAA Men's tourney champs?
3. ....vs the 64th seed in the Tournament?
4. ...vs the Indiana State Boys High School champs?
5. ....vs a boys high school varsity league champion?
6. ....vs an average boys high school varsity team?
7. .....vs a high school JV boys team?.....

It was only on the 7th question that he conceded that the women would have a good chance, simply because the boys' bodies would not all be fully developed quite yet.

So, in essence, the NBA is trying to promote a league that is "likely" about as good as a boys HS JV basketball team. well, take a look at a JV hoops game and see who attends....friends and family. No wonder the WNBA is on life support.

I doubt they couldn't compete against most high school teams, not necessarily league champs. I understand the point, but believe it's overstated.

WNBA wouldn't compete against any Pro, almost any college team and not the best high school teams. Beyond that I believe they'd compete.

The quality of women's basketball is poor.

yes, I agree. Sorry, I was not clear.

The point of our exercise was to determine a level at which you could say with little degree of uncertainty that the women would, over the course of say 5-10 games, win a fair share.

We were of the opinion that although WNBA champs would be competitive at the HS varsity level (as you state), neither one of us was 51% or more confident that they would win 5 or more of the 10 games. I still stand by that, but of course have zero basis for it, other than attending and watching a few WNBA games in person.

At the JV level, I could easily see it going 50-50, simply because many JV boys weigh 110 pounds, where some of the WNBA centers look like they are 200 pounds.

I don't follow high school basketball other than the tournaments they have here in Vegas.

And some of those teams could defeat some low level college teams. If a Lebron James high school team played the WNBA, I'd take that team as on WNBA has that level of athleticism.

The question of teamwork and knowledge of the game and at what level, disparate athleticism would make a difference. In high school, many players still play stupidly. By college the physicality and knowledge would be far superior.

It is rare for a high school boys team with a winning record to lack several players who can and do dunk. That is not the sole measure, but it would also show what would happen in terms of rebounding.

I know we've been through this before. Where we live, I have a good handle on the athletes both boys and girls in that age range that cover a high school boundary, through my kids involvement on super league teams and through coaching myself. There's not a single girl in the 7th grade that would contribute on the boys 6th grade super league teams--basketball and soccer. The 5th grade boys soccer team played the 7th grade girls soccer team and hammered them. A team of 7th grade girls would struggle to ever get the ball past the half court line against the 6th grade boys team. Tackle football would be a slaughter. This difference became apparent much younger. The strength difference kicks in about 3rd grade. I'm really not partial because I have both a son and a daughter that are on the super league teams. Maybe we should have our teams scrimmage sometime. ;)

I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I would never contend that girls can routinely compete with boys, especially if you try to frame the argument around "super league teams". I am just saying that your statement earlier in the thread about boys dominating girls at first grade and beyond (3rd grade now?) has exceptions.

In fairness, I should state that the boys in my daughter's school around her age aren't particularly athletic for some reason. I kind of doubt any of them would make it on an elite b-ball team. And my daughter is probably one of the top five girls in the state at her age. So that probably explains the phenomenon.

That being said, if I took the top three girls on my AAU team against three random boys from your team, the girls would probably lose, but I am confident that they would get the ball past half-court plenty of times.

When I worked at FranklinCovey we used to play bball in their gym all the time.

The Jazz used to practice there before they built the Zion's Bank Basketball Center.

Back in the day when the WNBA Utah Starzz were in town their players used to come out all the time and on occasion would scrimmage with us,,,,until they got in trouble for doing so...anyway.......it rarely took little effort to beat them.

The only one who would get really physical and upset is Natalie Williams...that girl is a brutish amazon....having said that,,,with her being one of the "WNBA Elite" at the time....even she wasn't that good.

I gotcha. I thought you were contending my point that boys are better than girls at that age. The difference starts, IMO, at about K or 1st grade and the gap widens from there, but I agree the gap is narrow enough at that age that the distributions of skill level will have plenty of overlap to find cases like your girls. Top five in the state. That is very impressive. We have brothers and sons of former college players, but we don't have anyone like that on our team. But we could still take the girls. :)

I've never played against WNBA but I played against women college players before, and they had no chance to compete with the guys at my level. I was a starter but not a star for an average 5A Utah HS team. Due to the strength and athleticism difference, a female center would need to be at least 3-4" taller than the male counterpart to matchup in the paint. A solid 6'6" athletic, buff male center would dominate. So based on that, I agree with DDD and infer that a decent HS team could handle the WNBA champions.

Would it be depressing to have a daughter who was best in state in basketball. Then you attend her college games and there are 200 people in the stands?

I think it would be depressing. Is there a women's sport that is appreciated and supported? I would steer her towards those sports.