They mean what the word itself means-- that there was falling away from the church as it was authoritatively established by Christ. The restoration is of that priesthood authority-- which, parenthetically, does not require doing away with anything good that happened in the interim.

It's not a misnomer at all. The definition, from the middle Liddell: 1. a defection, revolt; 2. departure from. The loss of priesthood authority IS the great apostasy.

I agree with this definition.

Although the Roman Catholic Church would argue that their priesthood has remained intact, in a line of traceable succession, back to Peter.

Today's LDS apostles also claim a line of priesthood authority back to Peter, but they reassure us that the apostasy won't happen again. I'm sure St. Eleutherius (Pope #13) would also have also dismissed any suggestion of widespread Christian apostasy.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

For one thing, as has been discussed here before, I don't think there's really much practical difference between atheists, deists, or agnostics, except for self-identification maybe for political purposes.

Paine was hard core atheist. He loathed Christianity, whatever gloss you want to put on it, thought the Bible was a fable. Back then, that meant you were an atheist, as atheist as it got.

Seriously, can you give me a quote where he invokes God?

The Catholics lose me when their authorities can't really say who the first pope was, Leo or Clement.

But the thought all good was lost is the primary thought which ultimately conveyed by many Mormons when they use the term "Great Apostasy."

Source on who says "all good was lost" in the Apostacy. TIA.

Well, I'm not afraid to reject that notion as blatantly false. But I don't think that thought was ever the church's official position on the apostasy. It's been a while since I read Talmage's book, but I don't remember even him being THAT absolutist.

It's been a while since I've read Talmage, so my impressions may be mistaken. In fact, I haven't read it since 1979. But the distinct impression I was left was this, "priesthood lost, God's grace lost and Christianity went gravely astray."

We continue to portray the history between Christ and Joseph Smith as one big dark era. It may not have been so bluntly stated, but that is the impression I was left with.

What does TIA mean?

TIA= thanks in advance.

I agree that the impression may be perpetuated by church members, which may be the point Arch is trying to get at in this thread. I'll be happy to do away with the notion that Catholicism is THE Great and Abominable Whore, sans any form of light and truth.

Thank you. Western culture was formed by virtue of the development of the RCC. We would not be where we are today without it. We culminate with this near-sightedness with BRM's characterization in his first version. So even at the top the culture cultivated that grossly mistaken belief.

where are we today?

The last 100 years were probably the bloodiest in the past 3,000 years.

So yes, I guess you could say the RCC brought us to this, with the specter of nuclear holocaust over our heads.