Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 137519)

Part of my mom's "job description" was to make sure that missionaries were taking their psychopharmaceuticals.

Originally Posted by Indy Coug (Post 137514)

Are you saying they unduly used their family ties to wield power?

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug (Post 137524)

No. I'm saying that the fact that they were relatives somehow introduced a bias. Maybe it's because they knew each other...I don't know.

I'm convinced that the vast majority of general authorities are genuinely good, sincere men who are doing their best, but sometimes make mistakes.

Originally Posted by Requiem (Post 137520)

My experience is that alot more missionaries are being sent home early, sometimes for questionable reasons and the negative consequences to the missionary and his/her family are severe and lifelong. For good reason, I have strong feelings on this topic.

Let me give you a recent (April, 2007) example. I have a niece who was serving as a missionary in Guatemala. After serving for six months, she wanted to "clear the slate" and called her MP on the phone to schedule an interview during his upcoming visit for a zone conference. He advised her to discuss the problem on the phone. She confessed a single incidence of petting not disclosed to her Bishop or SP. Thirty minutes after the phone call, the MP called her back and said she was being sent home. No personal visit, no attempt to work with her in the field. She was an outstanding missionary and had recently baptized a family with six children.

After returning home in disgrace, she and her family were isolated and shunned by her ward. Her punishment at home was three months of informal probation. No counseling, no arms of fellowship, nothing. Yes, she made a mistake, but the punishment did not fit the crime.

Here is the what this mean spirited MP hath wrought: my niece is now attending UC Northridge and is ambivalent towards the Church. Her testimony of the gospel is strong, but she will forever be labeled as a failed missionary. Her parents are not so lucky. They are now separated and in the process of divorcing after a 42 year marriage and seven children. Plain and simple, they could not withstand the isolation and judgements that followed their daughter being sent home. Some may judge that their marriage did not have a strong foundation and the daughter being sent home was merely a tipping point. I think otherwise.

Raising the bar without the application of wisdom and forgiveness is a double edged sword. There was not a sin here worthy of either disfellowshipment or excommunication. Another example of the consequences of the misapplication of Church discipline. Unrighteous dominion is pure evil.

Originally Posted by jay santos (Post 137531)

Usually I find myself on your side of the fight. I'm against church discipline. I've seen how it has negatively affected many people and families. I think the judgement of men whether it be mission president or high council to be a bit on the Tex side of power mongering and graceless. However...when you frame a story like you just did, it basically turns nearly everyone against you, as the story you describe is very unbelievable the way you state it, not to mention whiney and mean spirited. My first reaction is to want to argue against you, though I'm on your side of the fight.

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 137507)

I definately think there is a class system in the Church. I don't think it is pronounced, but it is definately there.

and thanks 71 for jacking the thread.

Originally Posted by Requiem (Post 137520)

My experience is that alot more missionaries are being sent home early, sometimes for questionable reasons and the negative consequences to the missionary and his/her family are severe and lifelong. For good reason, I have strong feelings on this topic.

Let me give you a recent (April, 2007) example. I have a niece who was serving as a missionary in Guatemala. After serving for six months, she wanted to "clear the slate" and called her MP on the phone to schedule an interview during his upcoming visit for a zone conference. He advised her to discuss the problem on the phone. She confessed a single incidence of petting not disclosed to her Bishop or SP. Thirty minutes after the phone call, the MP called her back and said she was being sent home. No personal visit, no attempt to work with her in the field. She was an outstanding missionary and had recently baptized a family with six children.

After returning home in disgrace, she and her family were isolated and shunned by her ward. Her punishment at home was three months of informal probation. No counseling, no arms of fellowship, nothing. Yes, she made a mistake, but the punishment did not fit the crime.

Here is the what this mean spirited MP hath wrought: my niece is now attending UC Northridge and is ambivalent towards the Church. Her testimony of the gospel is strong, but she will forever be labeled as a failed missionary. Her parents are not so lucky. They are now separated and in the process of divorcing after a 42 year marriage and seven children. Plain and simple, they could not withstand the isolation and judgements that followed their daughter being sent home. Some may judge that their marriage did not have a strong foundation and the daughter being sent home was merely a tipping point. I think otherwise.

Raising the bar without the application of wisdom and forgiveness is a double edged sword. There was not a sin here worthy of either disfellowshipment or excommunication. Another example of the consequences of the misapplication of Church discipline. Unrighteous dominion is pure evil.

Originally Posted by Requiem (Post 137520)

My experience is that alot more missionaries are being sent home early, sometimes for questionable reasons and the negative consequences to the missionary and his/her family are severe and lifelong. For good reason, I have strong feelings on this topic.

Let me give you a recent (April, 2007) example. I have a niece who was serving as a missionary in Guatemala. After serving for six months, she wanted to "clear the slate" and called her MP on the phone to schedule an interview during his upcoming visit for a zone conference. He advised her to discuss the problem on the phone. She confessed a single incidence of petting not disclosed to her Bishop or SP. Thirty minutes after the phone call, the MP called her back and said she was being sent home. No personal visit, no attempt to work with her in the field. She was an outstanding missionary and had recently baptized a family with six children.

After returning home in disgrace, she and her family were isolated and shunned by her ward. Her punishment at home was three months of informal probation. No counseling, no arms of fellowship, nothing. Yes, she made a mistake, but the punishment did not fit the crime.

Here is the what this mean spirited MP hath wrought: my niece is now attending UC Northridge and is ambivalent towards the Church. Her testimony of the gospel is strong, but she will forever be labeled as a failed missionary. Her parents are not so lucky. They are now separated and in the process of divorcing after a 42 year marriage and seven children. Plain and simple, they could not withstand the isolation and judgements that followed their daughter being sent home. Some may judge that their marriage did not have a strong foundation and the daughter being sent home was merely a tipping point. I think otherwise.

Raising the bar without the application of wisdom and forgiveness is a double edged sword. There was not a sin here worthy of either disfellowshipment or excommunication. Another example of the consequences of the misapplication of Church discipline. Unrighteous dominion is pure evil.

Originally Posted by non sequitur (Post 137542)

I've told both my daughters that they should never discuss their sex lives with Church leaders. I've told them that if they feel guilty about something and want to talk about it, they can always talk to me or to their mother. If they feel uncomfortable doing that, then I'll pay for them to talk with a professional counselor. I told them Church leaders are fine men and are generally sincere, but they have no ability to absolve anyone of anything they have done, and that if someone feels they have offended God, they should take it up with God.

Originally Posted by InVinoVeritas (Post 137549)

I think the girl was inviting you to participate in an unchaste act and you totally shut her down.