Originally Posted by Archaea (Post 128142)

Now friend, as a man, you bought into the "I'm only having sex with multiple women because I'm forced to" angle? Maybe as an eight year old without a knowledge of sex, but how could any grown man, buy into that line?

Originally Posted by jay santos (Post 128148)

I think the standard belief in the church is that JS's polygamous marriages were nonsexual. Not sure why, but that was the understanding I had. Ditto wife and others I've had chance to discuss with like siblings and close friends. Most people in the church even intelligent and educated, if you've lived reasonably isolated from anti-Mormons, don't have occasion to discover or even question some of these issues. I came to understand most of these things slowly in late 20's/early 30's--which seems fairly typical. There are still things I'm learning. Some seem troubling at first, but then when you think through them thoroughly, none of them are. But may require a tweak in what were core elements of your testimony that now become optional elements.

Originally Posted by marsupial (Post 128147)

That was what I was taught too. Now I know that Joseph used his authority to get women to go to bed with him. It bothers me a lot. I'm not leaving the church or anything, because I guess as Sooner says, I like Mormon-flavored ice cream.

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 128150)

This was first apparant to me as I read the Autobio of PPP. In one scene he pretends to be a anti-mormon drunk to fool a mob searching for him. He tells the story of how he fooled them. Then he goes on and on justifying the lie because David did the same thing when hiding from Saul. In the end he was shot by a mob (about 8 years later IIRC) anyway. Were the 8 years worth the lie? They wouldn't be worth it to me.

Originally Posted by Tex (Post 128154)

I have a hunch that someday the line to apologize to Joseph Smith and other prophets is going to be a very long one.

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 128150)

No story.

I am a deeply faithful Latter-day Saint. I could never deny it is based on truth--the Book of Mormon was revealed by heavenly means and priesthood keys were restored and Joseph died faithful to his calling.

Culturally I am a Mormon through and through active in every meaning of the word. I am desended from Willard Richards and all pioneer stock via my mother's side. Dad's dad was a WWII era convert.

I have read and know much about church history. I have read the standard works more often then I have read history. I believe I understand the doctrines of the gospel deeply and fully enough to know there is much left to be learned/remembered in the next phase.

Honesty is a primary value to me. I tend to be a mullah on the honesty issue.

There is a huge disconnect between the Church and its leader's practices and the honesty value I hold dear.

This was first apparant to me as I read the Autobio of PPP. In one scene he pretends to be a anti-mormon drunk to fool a mob searching for him. He tells the story of how he fooled them. Then he goes on and on justifying the lie because David did the same thing when hiding from Saul. In the end he was shot by a mob (about 8 years later IIRC) anyway. Were the 8 years worth the lie? They wouldn't be worth it to me.

But PPP's attitude was adopted by the Church--especially when it came to polygamy. But it didn't end there.

I believe that lying is now inbred into Mormon culture. Someone confesses a sin and is released from a calling, but some lie is put out and countenanced by the bishopric to save face. A movie is made about JS's last years and they ignore the "new and everlasting covenant of marriage" which was unquestionably the focus of the last years of JS's life. The gift of tounges is taught is the subject in sunday school, but the discussion centers around how fast missionaries learn languages for the whole hour. Mission presidents blame the fact that 40% of missionaries are wankers for having only 2 baptisms a month. And on and on and on and on.

I don't think God is pleased with our lying to ourselves and each other. I don't think it is helping with the three missions of the church. I think it is a cancer left over from lying about plural marriage that has yet to be cut out.

So I aim to make sure those in my sphere aren't afraid of the truth, get the truth in an honest way, and understand how the truth is still compatible with a testimony of JS and the modern church.

My other gospel hobby is God's mercy ala DC 19 and 29 and 76--the least understood doctrine in the church IMHO. But that is another discussion for another day.

Originally Posted by BYU71 (Post 128153)

However, people shouldn't be too offended when others think there is brainwashing that goes on.

Originally Posted by marsupial (Post 128157)

What is that supposed to mean?