2004 versus 2005...

[Goatnapper'96]

Now some of my favorite Crowton homers are endeavoring to convince the mindless masses that 2005 was no better than 2004. I hope this debate is put to rest for good when BYU beats Cal in the Vegas Bowl, but I don't want to wait until the blessed moment of consumation of that victory to bellow out why I feel 2005 was a better year. As mama has presently prohibited me from contact with Cougarboard, or at least I am unable to post, I hope my logic makes it their ears and they are invited to disagree.

I shall make the comparison a crude analogy. The principal reason I do such is because I can and we can all laugh about it like we are teenagers making blue darts at the Drive Inn, but there are other reasons as well. Such crude analogies are offensive to "mormon mullahs" and I feel it my duty to keep them away with my PG-13 posts. Finally, I think the analogy is pretty damn appropos at illustrating my point.

Would one rather wrestle with Pamela Anderson Lee Kid Rock Lee or Kristie Alley? This is not a sexual question, but if the intent is to pin the opponent I propose that most would rather scrape with Barb Wire. The reality is that Sister Alley is sporting an Ofa like pooper. It is more difficult to move folks whose buttcrack cleavage is visible from space. This is why BYU's OL are all immense fatasseye. The point of the analogy is that Pamela is top heavy, boy howdeeeeeeee! Last season's schedule was likewise top heavy. Save we took on that mutant from "Total Recall." After the top 3 of Utah, USC and BSU the schedule nosedived like Gary Crowton's field trip to the world's biggest little City (AKA Reno, Nevada). In my humble but highly accurate opinion (IMHBHAO) BYU only played two other decent-good teams, UNM and ND. In other words, I feel that BYU played 6 baaaaaaaad teams last season. I attribute poor coaching to three of BYU's losses, those being Stanford, UNM and UNLV.

This year BYU did not play the 3 headed "Total Recall" Pamela Anderson mutant. It did play 3 teams that are clearly better, but they were not insurmountable opponents. However, the schedule does not nosedive after TCU, BC and Notre Dame. CSU, UNM and Utah are all still formidible foes. In fact SDSU will most likely finish with a non-losing season. I feel that this year BYU only played 4 baaaaaad teams in AF, UNLV, WYO and EIU. Therefore, while this years schedule is not as sexy as the Canadian Contributions to Man Made Wonders of the World, it was more difficult to squeeze out 6 wins when wrestling with Kirstie Alley's immovable pooper in the middle.

It was not a spectacular year, but it was better than last season. Additionally, it was accomplished by a rookie staff that had some rather large talent defiencies to cover up. They had their issues and I hold them accountable for two of BYU's losses. I pin SDSU and Utah squarely on the coaches' shoulders. However, two debacles is always a better thing than 3. Certainly, I think they need to improve the team as BYU has more potential than peaking with this past season, but clearly the momentum indicates that these folks are more likely to get the program to its peak potential than Crowton was.

[Archaea]

TCU. We had them and then just let them back in.

SDSU. The team was not prepared. Not at all.

Utah. In the final two regulation drives, Curtis Brown disappears. That was stupid.

No horrible embarrasments this year, well maybe SDSU qualifies as one, but the coaches still have lots to learn. Problem with Crowton, one never really perceived him as having learned and grown in the job.

[SteelBlue]

I don't think one can really say that this team is any better than last years team. We had a softer schedule and became bowl eligible by scheduling a I-AA team (which I personally think was the right thing to do this season). However, I liked the win streak at the end of the season and I feel like the coaches are learning from mistakes. I think the offense next year will be a glorious thing to behold. I'm certainly not asking to hire Crowton back, but to say that we were decidedly better this year is a stretch. The offense was much better but decline of the D made 2004 and 2005 similar teams in terms of W's and L's.

I think Bronco has things headed in a better direction. But I also think GC took too much blame.

[WaterCat]

That was a significant step backwards. BYU was mentally unprepared for the rivalry. It was, as you said, a coaching failure, but beyond that it really made the season lose a lot of its luster. While two debaucles is better than three, the loss to your big rival for the fourth year in a row and the umpteenth time at home is a downer for the program and my main reason for arguing that 2004 and 2005 were basically equal.

I'm pretty sure that I followed your analogy - though I was, frankly, distracted, as usual, by the assets displayed under Archaea's name - and I agree that the MWC was better this year on the whole, still we needed that end of the year momentum. I think that the 2005 team is arguably better because the team showed heart and the ability to bounce back after losing. If BYU wins their Bowl Game then I will get in line and be happy with 2005. I hope that there are parallels with the 95 and 96 seasons...

[il Padrino Ute]

a failure on the part of BYU's coaching or was it the result of Utah's coaching and execution?

I'm biased, of course, but I tend to lean toward that it was more what Utah did than what BYU didn't do.

[realtall]

a failure on the part of BYU's coaching or was it the result of Utah's coaching and execution?

I'm biased, of course, but I tend to lean toward that it was more what Utah did than what BYU didn't do.

Of course the utes came out much stronger than BYU. I attribute that to the utes being better prepared(aka coaching). And then BYU outscored utah 31-10 in the second half. I attribute that to halftime adjustments made(coaching). And then the utes just made more plays in ot. 2 out of 3 = win for utes.

It was fairly clear to me, though, that BYU came out flat as a pancake for this game. Again. And I don't know why anymore.

[ute4ever]

This is a little off topic, but BYU was 5-6 last year, returned 17 starters, improved to 6-5.... and several regulars on that other board are campaigning for Bronconi to be MWC coach of the year.
(Note that TCU was also 5-6 last year).

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

Homer!

[PaloAltoCougar]

It's as if you've cut fourth period Cougarboard and you're here smokin' in the boys room. I hope I'm not the nerdy wannabe you make stand outside to provide warnings if Mr. Karbonowicz comes looking for you.

Perhaps no better distinction between this Board and Cougarboard has been offered than Goat's PG-13 reference. To the world, references to nipples, buttcracks and the star of Stacked are very tame, but they're a ticket to cyberhades on Cougarboard. I like both places, but it's nice to unloosen the belt a little and let one fly which one can't do in the more, shall we say, refined environs of Cougarboard.

As for 2004 vs. 2005, I believe the differences are at once great and small. There may not be a big difference between the two teams. One can muster a fair amount of statistical evidence to support either view. But I'll leave that project to the Indys of the boards. Instead, I see the two teams like shoppers nodding to each other on adjacent escalators. They're both at pretty much the same elevation, but the big difference is in their respective directions. I hope, and even believe, that the Utah result was an anomaly, and that this team is heading the right direction. I did not have that feeling last year.

Unlike 2004, I thought this year's edition got better, not worse, as the year progressed. But that's only my tenative ruling. I shall render my final verdict at around 9 PM PST on December 22.

Gotta run. Mr. Karbonowicz is coming.

[SoCalCoug]

Instead, I see the two teams like shoppers nodding to each other on adjacent escalators. They're both at pretty much the same elevation, but the big difference is in their respective directions.

I think that's a great analogy. I'd be more concerned about the Utah game if we hadn't come back so strongly in the second half. It was a great game between two rivals. Once you get to overtime, I think it's a coin flip determining who wins. Yeah, Beck made a few mistakes, and maybe they should used CB more in the overtime, but overall, I'm very pleased with their progress as a team.

And I may be alone in this, but I think Bronco's going to show his true head coach ability in how he manages the offseason recruiting this year.

[mpfunk]

Well it is great to see Goatnapper brought his buddy PAC along with him. Now if I can just convince PAC to join Goatnapper when I make him a Ute fan.

Also I'm hoping this shameless sucking up gets me another ping-pong ball in the PAC Princess lottery.

[OhioBlue]

You know, when you really take a look at stuff like this from a bit of a broader perspective, we sports fans are a crazy bunch. Or, at least, those on the other board who put all kinds of time and various statistical analyses into arguing a point are a tad nuts. I mean, really. Of course, we're better than that--we get to talk about nipples here. :wink:

We're already removed from the actual action of the game--we don't suit up, coach, or even get to switch that little down-number thingy on the sidelines (I always wanted that job, myself). We can't claim any part in wins or losses unless we've suited up.

Yet we'll sit for hours while we should be working and debate whether or not 105 kids barely out of their teens performed better than 105 kids barely out of their teens the previous year. And we'll hang our egos and pride on being right about a few guys who have a job that involves watching film, drawing on dry erase boards, and talking in 100 firesides a year. Like seriously get all worked up, passionate about it. When you really stop and think about how this game played with a little brown turd of a ball affects us, it's kinda funny. And maybe a wee bit sad. :?

Anyway, i don't really have a point. Nor does this contribute to the thread and conversation at hand. I might have just had a few too many cups of hot cocoa during a boring staff meeting, yeah that's it. Carry on, then.

[ute4ever]

Hey Ohio Blue! The money I give to my alumni association contributed to a better coaching staff and team than the money you gave to your alumni association!

Thus I am smarter than you, wiser than you, am more successful than you, and have a larger penis!

:roll:

[Indy Coug]

Now some of my favorite Crowton homers are endeavoring to convince the mindless masses that 2005 was no better than 2004. I hope this debate is put to rest for good when BYU beats Cal in the Vegas Bowl, but I don't want to wait until the blessed moment of consumation of that victory to bellow out why I feel 2005 was a better year. As mama has presently prohibited me from contact with Cougarboard, or at least I am unable to post, I hope my logic makes it their ears and they are invited to disagree.

I shall make the comparison a crude analogy. The principal reason I do such is because I can and we can all laugh about it like we are teenagers making blue darts at the Drive Inn, but there are other reasons as well. Such crude analogies are offensive to "mormon mullahs" and I feel it my duty to keep them away with my PG-13 posts. Finally, I think the analogy is pretty damn appropos at illustrating my point.

Would one rather wrestle with Pamela Anderson Lee Kid Rock Lee or Kristie Alley? This is not a sexual question, but if the intent is to pin the opponent I propose that most would rather scrape with Barb Wire. The reality is that Sister Alley is sporting an Ofa like pooper. It is more difficult to move folks whose buttcrack cleavage is visible from space. This is why BYU's OL are all immense fatasseye. The point of the analogy is that Pamela is top heavy, boy howdeeeeeeee! Last season's schedule was likewise top heavy. Save we took on that mutant from "Total Recall." After the top 3 of Utah, USC and BSU the schedule nosedived like Gary Crowton's field trip to the world's biggest little City (AKA Reno, Nevada). In my humble but highly accurate opinion (IMHBHAO) BYU only played two other decent-good teams, UNM and ND. In other words, I feel that BYU played 6 baaaaaaaad teams last season. I attribute poor coaching to three of BYU's losses, those being Stanford, UNM and UNLV.

This year BYU did not play the 3 headed "Total Recall" Pamela Anderson mutant. It did play 3 teams that are clearly better, but they were not insurmountable opponents. However, the schedule does not nosedive after TCU, BC and Notre Dame. CSU, UNM and Utah are all still formidible foes. In fact SDSU will most likely finish with a non-losing season. I feel that this year BYU only played 4 baaaaaad teams in AF, UNLV, WYO and EIU. Therefore, while this years schedule is not as sexy as the Canadian Contributions to Man Made Wonders of the World, it was more difficult to squeeze out 6 wins when wrestling with Kirstie Alley's immovable pooper in the middle.

It was not a spectacular year, but it was better than last season. Additionally, it was accomplished by a rookie staff that had some rather large talent defiencies to cover up. They had their issues and I hold them accountable for two of BYU's losses. I pin SDSU and Utah squarely on the coaches' shoulders. However, two debacles is always a better thing than 3. Certainly, I think they need to improve the team as BYU has more potential than peaking with this past season, but clearly the momentum indicates that these folks are more likely to get the program to its peak potential than Crowton was.

There are two separate issues, the 2005 season and beyond the 2005 season. I don't know how anyone can make an ironclad case that the 2005 season is any better than the 2004 season. The extra kum-ba-ya factor still didn't stop us from laying eggs several times during the season. The improvement on offense was offset by a big decline on defense. BYU's Sagarin ranking is 3 spots worse this year than last year. Both seasons had games we should have won but didn't.

Now as for beyond 2005, we very well could be in better shape now with Bronco than without, but that remains to be seen.

But as for the 2005 season IN AND OF ITSELF being better than 2004, there just isn't any evidence of that.

[SoCalCoug]

But as for the 2005 season IN AND OF ITSELF being better than 2004, there just isn't any evidence of that.

I think the difference in my mind is how the season ended. This season ended with 4 wins in 5 games. We had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we did. Last season, we had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we didn't.

I think the other difference is that for the three previous years, at a school where offense reigns (please note the use of the correct homonym) supreme, our offense was inconsistent (either poor or kind of poor), and we couldn't figure out why. This year, the offense ended strongly, and although the defense sucked, we at least can point to a reason (lack of talent in the secondary).

Another difference is that what has led to our biggest problem (personnel holes and lack of depth, particularly in the secondary), the loss of key players to recent honor code violations, is something that Bronco is very publicly addressing. The hope is that if he can continue to win and keep the players here, the future is bright.

As PAC said, even though we're at virtually the same place as last year, this year, our escalator seems to be heading up.

[Indy Coug]

But as for the 2005 season IN AND OF ITSELF being better than 2004, there just isn't any evidence of that.

I think the difference in my mind is how the season ended. This season ended with 4 wins in 5 games. We had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we did. Last season, we had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we didn't.

I think the other difference is that for the three previous years, at a school where offense reigns (please note the use of the correct homonym) supreme, our offense was inconsistent (either poor or kind of poor), and we couldn't figure out why. This year, the offense ended strongly, and although the defense sucked, we at least can point to a reason (lack of talent in the secondary).

Another difference is that what has led to our biggest problem (personnel holes and lack of depth, particularly in the secondary), the loss of key players to recent honor code violations, is something that Bronco is very publicly addressing. The hope is that if he can continue to win and keep the players here, the future is bright.

As PAC said, even though we're at virtually the same place as last year, this year, our escalator seems to be heading up.

Regarding the last two games, we played two crappy teams this year and two good teams last year (IMO, 2004 UNM is better than 2005 Utah), so going 1-1 was an easier task.

The escalator may be going up in the future, but someone forgot to turn on the button for the 2005 regular season. It was six of one kind, a half-dozen of the other.

[Rickomatic]

Perhaps I wear my Blue glasses too much, but wasn't there more of an energy for the fans this year. The teams may have had very similar results the two years, but there was an excitement with the fans this year that was missing in Provo last year. If the fans can generate a little more, I know the team will feel it. I did when I played.

[JohnnyLingo]

I remember walking into the Utah game with my dad and brothers and my dad being so excited at how the season had gone to this point. The Utah game was almost a foregone conclusion, considering how each team had been playing recently. I replied, "Yeah, I'm happy with this season, but if they don't win today....", while thinking that I'd be distinctly less happy if they lost.

BYU lost, I was pissed, and my satisfaction level for this season is low. Part of it is that we lost to Utah, yes, but most of it is that we lost to a team we should have, could have beaten to end the regular season.

In a nutshell, the offense is better and the defense sucks so badly that Lark could've come in and passed on our DBs, as long as he had a decent offensive line.

[jay santos]

But as for the 2005 season IN AND OF ITSELF being better than 2004, there just isn't any evidence of that.

I think the difference in my mind is how the season ended. This season ended with 4 wins in 5 games. We had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we did. Last season, we had to win one of the last two games to make a bowl game, and we didn't.

I think the other difference is that for the three previous years, at a school where offense reigns (please note the use of the correct homonym) supreme, our offense was inconsistent (either poor or kind of poor), and we couldn't figure out why. This year, the offense ended strongly, and although the defense sucked, we at least can point to a reason (lack of talent in the secondary).

Another difference is that what has led to our biggest problem (personnel holes and lack of depth, particularly in the secondary), the loss of key players to recent honor code violations, is something that Bronco is very publicly addressing. The hope is that if he can continue to win and keep the players here, the future is bright.

As PAC said, even though we're at virtually the same place as last year, this year, our escalator seems to be heading up.

Regarding the last two games, we played two crappy teams this year and two good teams last year (IMO, 2004 UNM is better than 2005 Utah), so going 1-1 was an easier task.

The escalator may be going up in the future, but someone forgot to turn on the button for the 2005 regular season. It was six of one kind, a half-dozen of the other.

Indy's exactly right for once.

[Surfah]

When I look at this season in comparison to last years I just kind of shrug. I mean, we lost a big game at home to our rivals. Fell short in an upset at home where we completely dominated the team only to let them back in. Lost a game to a team who had no business beating us. And got thrashed in a nationally televised game cementing two players' chances for post season awards.

I don't know. I guess I expected more. I didn't expect the letdown by the defense with a DC as HC. In the end, I ask myself, "Could Crowton have duplicated this season if he were still here?" In my mind, yes.

We finished 6-5 with a far inferior schedule than we had last year.

Is the program on the up? I don't know.

[Pampas Coug]

(since I need to be a "regular" to be invited into certain rooms :lol: ) I think there was improvement that cannot be measured merely through wins and losses. Crowton's teams always started the year great and then petered out through whatever reason to be wildly inconsistent from week to week from half-way through the season.

This year, there were expected growing pains of a very young and inexperienced coaching staff (did I REALLY just use those two adjectives??!!??), but the team seemed to grow from week to week to gain confidence. And what the defense was unable to always do (stop the opponent from scoring), the offense WAS able to do (score when necessary). Even the best of Lavell's teams had occasional hiccups in seasons. I felt much more like I was watching BYU of old, where there was always a chance in a game.....very much unlike the past three years.

So, with that said, the schedule was markedly easier this year. Had Crowton been retained (and yfanatico continued to play all year long without giving up), I'd expect the record would've been similar. However, I would've still anticipated a falling off of consistency at the end of the season. We would've started off better, but finished worse than this year had Crowton been retained.

Those are my thoughts on the matter.