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Dan
11-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Have you guys read this memo in the past? It is interesting and insightful. I was browsing back through my electronic files and I came across it again. I thought I would throw it out there for you all to see if anyone has read it, and more improtantly for my question to anyone, if anyone has seen these sort of things take place or know people involved.

[Note to Mike Waters: if this is too long, I can try to find a link for it. Feel free to delete it if it is too long]

Begin >>>>>

MEMORANDUM

DATE: JULY 19, 1990
To: Strengthening Church Members Committee
From: Bishop Glenn L. Pace
Subject: Ritualistic Child Abuse

Pursuant to the Committee's request, I am writing this
memorandum to pass along what I have learned about
ritualistic child abuse. Hopefully, it will be of some value
to you as you continue to monitor the problem. You have
already received the LDS Social Services report on Satanism
dated May 24, 1989, a report from Brent Ward, and a
memorandum from myself dated October 20, 1989 in response to
Brother Ward's report. Therefore, I will limit this writing
to information not contained in those papers.

I have met with 60 victims. That number could be twice or
three times as many if I did not discipline myself to only
one meeting per week. I have not wanted my involvement with
this issue to become a handicap in fulfilling my assigned
responsibilities. On the other hand, I felt someone needed
to pay the price to obtain an intellectual and spiritual
conviction as to the seriousness of this problem within the
church.

Of the 60 victims with whom I have met, 52 are female and 7
are male. Eight are children. The abuse occurred in the
following places: Utah (37), Idaho (3), California (4),
Mexico (2), and other places (14). Fifty three victims are
currently living in the State of Utah. All 60 individuals
are members of the church. Forty five victims allege
witnessing and/or participating in human sacrifice. The
majority were abused by relatives, often their parents. All
have developed psychological problems and most have been
diagnosed as having multiple personality disorder or some
other form of dissociative disorder.

Ritualistic child abuse is the most hideous of all child
abuse. The basic objective is premeditated--to
systematically and methodically torture and terrorize
children until they are forced to dissociate. The torture is
not a consequence of the loss of temper, but the execution
of well-planned, well-thought out rituals often performed by
close relatives. The only escape for the children is to
dissociate. They will develop a new personality to enable
them to endure various forms of abuse. When the episode is
over, the core personality is again in control and the
individual is not conscious of what happened. Dissociation
also serves the purposes of the occult because the children
have no day-to-day memory of the atrocities. They go through
adolescence and early adulthood with no active memory of
what is taking place. Oftentimes they continue in rituals
through their teens and early twenties, unaware of their
involvement. Many individuals with whom I have spoken have
served missions and it has not been until later that they
begin to remember. One individual has memories of
participating in rituals while serving as a full-time
missionary.

The victims lead relatively normal lives, but the memories
are locked up in the compartment in their minds and surface
in various ways. They don't know how to cope with the
emotions because they can't find the source. As they become
adults and move into another environment, something triggers
the memories and consequently, flashback and/or nightmares
occur. One day they will have been living a normal life and
the next they will be in a mental hospital in a fetal
position. The memories of their early childhood are
recalled in so much detail that they once again feel the
pain that caused the dissociation in the first place.

There are two reasons why adults can remember with such
detail events that happened in their past: First, the
terror they experienced was so stark that it was indelibly
placed in their mind. Second, the memory was
compartmentalized in a certain portion of the mind and was
not subjected to the dilution of experiences of ensuring
years. When it is tapped, it is as fresh as if it happened
yesterday.

The memories seem to come in layers. For example, the first
memory might be of incest; then they remember robes and
candles; next they realize that their father or mother or
both were present when they were being abused. Another
layer will be the memory of seeing other people hurt and
even killed. Then they remember having seen babies killed.
Another layer is realizing that they participated in the
sacrifices. One of the most painful memories may be that
they even sacrificed their own baby. With each layer of
memory comes another set of problems with which they must
deal.

Some have said that the witnesses to this type of treatment
cannot be trusted because of the victim's unstable
condition and because practically all of them have some
kind of dissociative disorder; in fact, the stories are so
bizarre as to raise serious credibility questions. The
irony is that one of the objectives of the occult is to
create multiple personalities within the children in order
to keep the "secrets." They live in society without society
having any idea that something is wrong since the children
and teenagers don't even realize there is another life
occurring in darkness and in secret. However, when 60
witnesses testify to the same type of torture and murder, it
becomes impossible for me, personally not to believe them.

I mention multiple personalities because the spiritual
healing which must take place in the lives of these victims
cannot happen without their priesthood leaders
understanding something about it.

The spiritual indoctrination which takes places during the
physical abuse is one of the most difficult to overcome. In
addition to experiencing stark terror and pain, the
children are also instructed in satanic doctrine.
Everything is completely reversed: white is black, black is
white, good is bad, bad is good, Satan is going to rule
during the millennium.

Children are put in a situation where they believe they are
going to die--such as being buried alive or being placed in
a plastic bag and immersed in water. Prior to doing so, the
abuser tells the child to pray to Jesus to see if He will
save her. Imagine a 7 year old girl, having been told she
is going to die, praying to Jesus to save her and nothing
happens--then at the last moment she is rescued, but the
person saving her is a representative of Satan. He uses
this experience to convincer her that the only person who
really cares about her is Satan, she is Satan's child and
she might as well become loyal to him.

Just before or shortly after their baptism into the church,
children are baptized by blood into the satanic order which
is meant to cancel out their baptism into the church. They
will be asked if they understand or have ever felt the
Holy Ghost. When they reply that they have, the will be
reminded of the horrible things they have participated in
and will be told that they have become a son (or daughter)
of perdition and, therefore, have no chances of being
saved or loved by our Father in heaven or Jesus.

All of this indoctrination takes place with whichever
personality has emerged to endure the physical, mental,
and spiritual pain. Consequently, there develops within
each of these individuals the makings of what I call a civil
war. As the memories begin to surface, there are
personalities who feel they have given themselves to
Satan, and there is no hope for forgiveness. The core
person is an active member of the church, often with a
temple recommend. As integration takes place, the civil
war begins. Sometimes, in a interview, personalities of
the dark side have come out. They are petrified or perhaps
full of hate for me and what I represent. Eventually those
personalities need to be dealt with spiritually and
psychologically.

Most victims are suicidal. They have been brainwashed with
drugs, hypnosis, and other means to become suicidal as
soon as they start to tell the secrets. They have been
threatened all of their lives that if they don't do what
they are told their brother or sister will die, their
parents will die, their house will be burned, or they
themselves will be killed. They have every reason to
believe it since they have seen people killed. They believe
they might as well kill themselves instead of wait for the
occult to do it. Some personalities feel it is the right
thing to do.

The purpose of this detail is to stress the complexity of
psychological and spiritual therapy for these individuals.
Our priesthood leaders, when faced with such cases, are
understandably at a loss of how to respond. Orthodox
counsel is completely ineffective. For example, some victims
have been told that this all happened in their past and
that they should put it behind them and get on with their
lives. This is just not possible. Part of the spiritual
therapy necessary is for priesthood leaders to assist with
the conversion process of the personalities who have been
indoctrinated into Satanism. Victims must integrate their
personalities so that they can function as whole persons
and be able to deal with their problems and then get on with
their lives.

Often, some of the parts will begin to act out--perhaps
promiscuously--and a good intentioned priesthood leader,
following the General Handbook of Instructions, will
disfellowship or excommunicate an individual. All this
does is reinforce the satanic indoctrination of the victims
that they are no good.

I'm sorry to say that many of the victims have had their
first flashbacks while attending the temple for the first
time. The occult along the Wasatch Front uses the doctrine
of the Church to their advantage. For example, the
verbiage and gestures are used in a ritualistic ceremony in
a very debased and often bloody manner. When the victim goes
to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories
are triggered. We have recently been disturbed with members
of the church who have talked about the temple ceremony.
Compared to what is happening in the occult along the
Wasatch Front, these are very minor infractions. The
perpetrators are also living a dual life. Many are temple
recommend holders. This leads to another reason why the
church needs to consider the seriousness of these problems.
In affect, the church is being used.

I go out of my way to not let the victims give the names of
the perpetrators. I have told them that my responsibility is
to help them with spiritual healing and that the names of
perpetrators should be given to therapists and law
enforcement officers. However, they have told me the
positions in the church of members who are perpetrators.
Among others, there are Yong Women leaders, Young Men
leaders, bishops, a patriarch, a state president, temple
workers, and members of the Tabernacle Choir. These
accusations are not coming from individuals who think they
recognize someone, but from those who have been abused by
people they know, in many cases their own family members.

Whatever the form of abuse our main concern is for the
victims, but there are legal ramifications. We are
disturbed to receive reports that a scoutmaster has abused
the boys in his troop. It is not difficult to imagine what
would happen if we learned that a bishop or stake president
has participated in the abominations of ritualistic child
abuse. Not only do some of the perpetrators represent a
cross section of the Mormon culture, but sometimes the
abuse has taken place in our own meetinghouses.

I don't pretend to know how prevalent the problem is. All I
know is that I have met with 60 victims. Assuming each one
comes from a coven of 13, we are talking about the
involvement of 800 or so right here on the Wasatch Front.
Obviously, I have only seen those coming forth to get help.
They are in their twenties and 30s for the most part. I can
only assume that is expanding geometrically and am
horrified the numbers represented by the generation who are
now children and teenagers.

Another reason for concern is that there are several
doctrinal issues that need to be resolved. The church and
society in general are very skeptical as to whether the
occult and is activities do exist. There is no First
Presidency statement relative to some of the doctrinal
issues: What does a priesthood leader tell individuals who
come forward and say that they have participated in these
rituals--which may include human sacrifice? Should they
have a temple recommend? Will they every be forgiven? There
are questions regarding free agency and accountability. Is
a person who has been raised in an occult from infancy
accountable for things that take place in a dissociated
state, even though those acts were committed after the age
of 8? I have formed my own opinions to these questions and
have done the best I can. However, I don't have the mantle
to make these doctrinal and policy decision. I have relied
on the mantle of a bishop regarding discernment and being a
common judge.

The few priesthood leaders who have had to face these issues
are crying out for help because they don't want to give
their own opinions and yet there is no place to go for an
answer. A bishop will go to his stake president who says he
doesn't believe it is happening and that the member is just
crazy. The stake president might go to an area presidency
who will react in a similar way. Most people are afraid to
surface it to the first presidency for fear of getting the
same reaction and don't want to appear crazy themselves for
asking the question.

I hope you will excuse me if I am being presumptuous, but I
am concluding this paper with scriptures I feel support my
belief that these activities are real and cannot be
ignored.

The things I have been writing about go back to Cain and
Abel:

he quotes Moses 5:29-31

All of the experiences I have heard about have to do with
secrecy, swearing not to tell, murdering to get gain and
power:

Moses 5:50-52

And then in Moses 6:l5 we learn that as people began to fill
the earth, so did these secret works:

The book of Mormon is replete with descriptions of these
secret murderous combinations as well as prophecies that
they will always be with us: 2 Nephi 9:9, l0:l5, 26:22

In Alma, we find that the Lord commanded some of the
prophets not to write any of the secret works, especially
of the secret oaths, so that they would not become known by
generations to follow, but that they might be warned that
they do exist: Alma 37:21, 25-28

In Helaman, the name of Gadianton is introduced and becomes
descriptive throughout the Book of Mormon relative to the
secret combinations. Helaman 2:3-4,8

It was true then as it is now that these things were not
know by the general populace or by the government: Helaman
3:23

In chapter 6, we learn that in spite of the Lord's command
to the prophets not to write these things, Satan is
capable, and always has been, of revealing his secrets to
his followers just as the Lord has revealed His will to the
prophets. Helaman 6:l8, 21-26.

In light of this scripture, it is naive for us to think
these things would not exist in our own generation. We know
this is the last dispensation, the dispensation of the
fulness of times. Surely Satan would not "pass" on this
most important dispensation.

In Helaman 8:l we learn that people in high places were
members of the Gadianton band and secret combinations:

We have allegations to indicate that this is true of people
in high places today in both the church and the government
who are leading this dual life. The secret combinations
were mentioned all through the Book of Mormon. In Mormon
1:18-19 we read that these Gadianton robbers were still
alive and well and functioning:

In Mormon 8:27 there is a prophecy that secret combinations
will be among us in our time

The extent of the evil that mankind will perpetrate on
another is told in Moroni 9:10.

Many of use have read this all of our lives and click our
tongues at how awful it would be to live in such a time.
Those victims with whom I have spoken testify that these
things going on all around us today. In Ether we are told
that they will exist amongst us, the gentiles, and we are
also warned that we should do something about it:

In summary, we live in the last dispensation of the fullness
of times and Satan is here with his secret combinations in
all of the ugliness that existed in previous dispensations.
The scriptures prophesy to that reality. I also believe
that the scriptures cited and many others that could be
quoted argue against our being passive about the problem. I
don't want to be known as an alarmist or a fanatic on the
issue. Now that I have put what I have learned in writing
to you, I feel that the issue is in the right court. I hope
to take a low profile on the subject and get on with the
duties which I have been formally assigned. This is not to
say I would not be willing to be of service. Over the last
l8 months I have acquired a compassionate love and respect
for the victims who are fighting for the safety of their
physical lives and; more importantly, their souls.

<<<<< End

MikeWaters
11-02-2005, 01:36 AM
Did you read my earlier post about this subject, Dan?

SoCalCoug
11-02-2005, 03:56 AM
Are we sure this is authentic? I tend to question "official" memoranda which have such blatant spelling errors, such as this:

However, they have told me the
positions in the church of members who are perpetrators.
Among others, there are Yong Women leaders, Young Men
leaders, bishops, a patriarch, a state president, temple
workers, and members of the Tabernacle Choir.

There's mention of multiple human sacrifices; yet, I can't remember ever hearing in the news of something remotely similar to a human sacrifice. You'd think that would be such a sensational item that if the media had an inkling that a murder was due to satanic ritual abuse, it would be leading off the newscast.

Forgive my skepticism (I'm actually quite open-minded - more than most about things like this) but something about the memo just doesn't sit well with me. Dare I doubt its authenticity?

MikeWaters
11-02-2005, 03:58 AM
remember when I questioned my coworker why I hadn't heard news about it or arrests?

He said "because the police are in on it."

Archaea
11-02-2005, 04:29 AM
but also ripe for abuse.

It is plausible it's all hokey, and it's plausible that the adversary has done these things. I tend not to believe them, hope they are not true and hope never to encounter them.

creekster
11-02-2005, 04:49 AM
is legitimate (although I do have empathy for misspellings casued by poor typing skills), I can say that when I first got out of law school in 1987 I clerked at an appellate level court which was reviewing a number of convictions based on supposed satanic worship caused child abuse. I had two reactions to these cases, which included the most vile claims of betrayal of parental trust and responsibility you can imagine: First, the trial judge, who was apprently caught up in the hysteria surrounding these claims, had committed numerous errors at trial. Second, the bulk of these claims were pure balderdash, having been suggested by overzealous and (IMO) twsited therapists who engaged in reprehensible conduct with the children. My judge agreed with the first conclusion on the record adn with the second conclusion privately. As it turned out, the victims recanted prior to the re-trial and none of the parents were convicted or even re-tried.

The only thing Satanic about the whole situation was the treatment of the families by those investigating these wild claims. Personally, I think that this sort of thing, if it happens at all, is, thankfully, very, very rare.

I also tend to agree with SoCalCoug.

SteelBlue
11-02-2005, 05:38 AM
I have 2 basic thoughts on the matter:

1) Where are all of these murdered people? He's talking about 60 people who all claim to have seen murder(s) and participated in them after seeing so many. This leaves us with at least 120 murders ( at least 1 as witness and at least 1 as participant) and likely many more (from the sound of the letter) just in the intermountain area alone. I don't think there are anywhere near that number of unsolved murders or missing people. I suppose I could be wrong.

2) I have worked with 2 patients who had a psych. history that supposedly involved satanic ritual abuse. My work with them was in a physical rehabilitation capacity and not a psych. capacity but their histories were well documented. In both cases the women were from "alternative" christian sects. Both claimed to have witnessed and participated in ritual satanic abuse. Both claimed to have seen and participated in multiple human sacrifices. Both were from small towns where nobody had been reported missing and no dead bodies had been found. IMHO, both were lying and crazy. It is very interesting though how their stories are almost exactly as described in this letter only no references to Mormonism.

Overall, the letter appears to me to be either inauthentic OR the natural reactions of a righteous man when confronted with these heinous stories by a multitude of believable people.

Dan
11-02-2005, 08:49 PM
Mike ... No, I did not see your earlier thread.

Others ... regarding the memo, it is legitimate. The typo's could be from typing reproduction based on the original that may not have had the errors. But the memo itself is legit and Pace wrote it. If there is more than a little truth to the speculation, I would guess mutilated badies are not found because they would be from missing persons.

SteelBlue
11-02-2005, 10:14 PM
Others ... regarding the memo, it is legitimate. The typo's could be from typing reproduction based on the original that may not have had the errors. But the memo itself is legit and Pace wrote it. If there is more than a little truth to the speculation, I would guess mutilated badies are not found because they would be from missing persons.

That's a ton of missing persons though. You could be less conservative with my numbers above and take the approx. 60 people he spoke with and give them 2 witnessed murders and 2 participations per person. Now you're looking at 240 missing persons just in the Utah/Idaho area. The memo makes it sound as though there could be many more than that just among those he talked with. He also mentions that there were many more people who wanted to talk with him, but he was limiting himself to 1 per week. When you factor that in, you're talking about a whole lot of missing people.

I believe you that the memo is legit, I just can't believe that it's really happening. Seems more likely that it is some common manifestation of a mental illness. Kind of like all of the people who claim UFO abduction and all tell remarkably similar stories.

MikeWaters
11-02-2005, 10:26 PM
I wonder what Bishop Pace thought of the movie "Eyes Wide Shut"

Dan
11-02-2005, 10:29 PM
... I am not necessarily trying to calim everything Pace said was true, just that the memo itself was legitimate. I was wondering things along the lines of what you were speculating. Has anyone here known people involved in experiences like this, or any other understanding of these things? I guess, if someone was a perpetrator of such, they would not come forward, but, you get the thrust of my question.

MikeWaters
11-02-2005, 10:34 PM
I have encountered people who purported to be victims of satanic ritual abuse.

I tend towards the idea that this is a honest fabrication. The people are sincere, but the events did not occur.

But I try to keep an open mind. I don't rule out the possibility.

creekster
11-02-2005, 11:11 PM
ritualistic satanic child abusers? LOL.

I don't know anyone personally, but I did have the 'benefit' of reviewing the compelte trial record from the cases i mentioned above. IT was sickening becasue if true, it was hard to believe that anyone could systematically destroy their own child's life as these people were accused of doing or, if not true, that anyone could destroy families by manipulating young children to beleive in crazy stories.

Here is a true story. When I was in 6th grade a kid in our class named Jack claimed that he had seen the devil in the bathroom mirror. I relaize this is silly, but Jack was very theatrical and began to lead groups of kids into the bathroom, turn off the lights and tell everyone to close their eyes and then chant somehting like "Devil, devil let me see" or some such. He would then tell everyone to open their eyes and look into the mirror for a fleeting image of the devil. There, under the eerie glow of a UV light (which was the only light still on) these kids began to see the devil. Pretty soon virttually all of the 6th grade had fallen under Jack's suggestion and swore, and I mean they were earnest, that they had seen the devil, ever so breiefly, in the mirror.

This was not enough for Jack, of course. After a couple of days the drama was waning and so suddenly Jack claimed that the devil had reached from the mirror and began to choke him. He even displayed the red marks on his throat as proof. THis convinced us all over agian. (Why Jack would venture into a bathroom alone with the Devil was a question I didn't think to ask at the time.)

When the thrill of the choking wore off jack tried to claim that he was being levitated, but his attempts to 'jump' as proof were so incredibly absurd (and in hindsight sad) that the bloom was off the rose, so to sepak. Added to this was the fact that one fo the more level-headed students (I wish I could say it was me, but it wasn't) told a teacher why so many of us were repeatedly trooping off ot the bathroom in convoys with Jack. The teacher investigated and then held a meeting to point out how ridiculaous it all was and how embarassed we should all be.

As I look back, I know that I never saw the devil in the mirror. I owuld have sworn to almost anyone else that I had, however, and I convinced myself to believe it at the time. Moreover, having said I saw the devil, I could not later recant untiul everyone else did as well.

Look, the world has lots of evil; but most of it happens one on one or in little incremental and much mcuh more insidious ways. There probabyl are people that engage in ritualistic satanic worship and abuse, but I think it is very rare. More than likely, just like Jack and the cases I dealt with at the court, the claims result more from mass hysteria and suggested group think.

Frankly, I am surporised to know that Elder Pace actually wrote the memo, becasue I think it is very conclusionary and dimsisses the possibility of contrary conlusions in such a cavalier fashion. Steelblue is propbaly correct, IMO, when he says that the claims just can't be true, at least not in the numbers that are claimed.

Does anyone know why the memo was written and what happened as a result? The memo refers to monitoring the problem. How could they monitor it without stopping it?

Archaea
11-03-2005, 12:15 AM
consider that it wasn't for general distribution, and we don't know how the committee received it. We don't know if it was repudiated or whether it was ever revised. We don't know if this is its original form.

Since it was never intended for publication, there really is not enough information to draw meaningful conclusions.

ute4ever
11-03-2005, 12:55 AM
I find it strange that the two concurrent active threads in this forum are:

1) Mostly convincing each other that the flood was real and literal

2) Mostly convincing each other that satanic ritual abuse is exagerrated and inaccurate

MikeWaters
11-03-2005, 01:52 AM
LOL. I guess I am one of the consistent ones.

I neither believe in a literal interpretation of the flood nor the literal version of gangs of Satanists.

myboynoah
11-03-2005, 07:56 AM
I find it strange that the two concurrent active threads in this forum are:

1) Mostly convincing each other that the flood was real and literal

2) Mostly convincing each other that satanic ritual abuse is exagerrated and inaccurate

Thank you for the chuckle.

:lol:

ute4ever
11-03-2005, 08:05 PM
Naturally I thought of this thread when I came across this news headline:

"320 People Arrested for Sorcery"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051103/od_nm/papua_sorcery_dc

It is the #7 most popular news story of the day on Yahoo News

Archaea
11-08-2005, 02:06 AM
http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=271&fArticleId=2983423

MikeWaters
11-08-2005, 02:10 AM
what a waste. that's putting it mildly.

more like "please God let me rain down hell on this man."

the avenging angel needs to get to work.