Ok... I'll restart the GSA thread...

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Robin/Faith... The GSA has no place in public schools...

You can go on and on about how it is a group that promotes fellowship and understanding between gay and non-gay students but frankly I don't give a crap. It doesn't belong in a public school.

Should they have the S&M Prude alliance club?

How about the Bestiality FFA alliance?

Or the Pedophilia alliance?

Or how about the psychotic killer alliance?

Now I'm waiting for the response where somebody gets their hackles up and says that homosexuality is totally different from those other activities but I would like you to explain to me how...

[Robin]

Robin/Faith... The GSA has no place in public schools...

You can go on and on about how it is a group that promotes fellowship and understanding between gay and non-gay students but frankly I don't give a crap. It doesn't belong in a public school.

Should they have the S&M Prude alliance club?

How about the Bestiality FFA alliance?

Or the Pedophilia alliance?

Or how about the psychotic killer alliance?

Now I'm waiting for the response where somebody gets their hackles up and says that homosexuality is totally different from those other activities but I would like you to explain to me how...

In a PUBLIC school that allows people to organize clubs, students should be able to organize any sort of club that does not promote illegal behavior. In the free market of ideas, some clubs will ultimately thrive, and others will not. GSA's all over the country have proven their significance in numbers, and have consistently promoted tolerant behavior toward gay people.

What about promoting tolerant behavior toward gay people do you not accept?

[il Padrino Ute]

I have to say that in regard to GSAs, I don't care if they exist so long as any funds used to support them are entirely private. I feel the same way about FBLA, DECA and any other extra-cirricular clubs at public schools.

[non sequitur]

Robin/Faith... The GSA has no place in public schools...

You can go on and on about how it is a group that promotes fellowship and understanding between gay and non-gay students but frankly I don't give a crap. It doesn't belong in a public school.

Should they have the S&M Prude alliance club?

How about the Bestiality FFA alliance?

Or the Pedophilia alliance?

Or how about the psychotic killer alliance?

Now I'm waiting for the response where somebody gets their hackles up and says that homosexuality is totally different from those other activities but I would like you to explain to me how...

Or how about LDS seminary? In my opinion, oraganized religion has no place in public school, yet we welcome seminary with open arms in Utah's high schools.

[Archaea]

Or how about LDS seminary? In my opinion, oraganized religion has no place in public school, yet we welcome seminary with open arms in Utah's high schools.

Is it in the schools there?

Here it's just off campus with release but it's not in the schools.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

...students should be able to organize any sort of club that does not promote illegal behavior...

Anything goes as long as it is legal? Are you sure that's the standard? You're setting the bar pretty low.

How about a we like to masturbate while thinking about teacher club?

Should the "I like to eat my own feces club" have a faculty advisor? They could promote tolerance between the kids who eat their own turds and the kids who don't eat their own turds.

What about a neo-nazi group who believe that the world will be a much better place if everybody would just accept that whites are a superior race and should rule the world?

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is right or that it should be in our schools.

The legal standard wont work. The law isn't the high mark it is the absolute minimum we will accept. The idea is to create an enviroment where children can learn.

Does having a thousand special interest/political activist groups on campus really lend itself to that goal?

GSA's all over the country have proven their significance in numbers

Significant? So what? What does the fact that it is a significant group have to do with whether or not it has a place in public schools?

Many groups have proven their significance thru numbers. That doesn't make them appropriate.

Hell... The KKK is a hugely significant group. Does that doesn't grant them a place at Springville HS?

What about tolerant behavior toward gay people do you not accept?

Nice line... That's like when Snipe asks people "What is it about freedom that you hate?"

Try to villanize me but the truth is that I'm just not buying your line of crap.

Is it tolerance that the GSA is really after? Do they want to be tolerated or accepted? How do the kids in the GSA feel about the right wing nut jobs who think they're all going to hell? Do they feel like they should have a place in the school?

Get right down to the bare bones. The GSA and other groups like it want people to accept homosexuality as a natural and appropriate behavior. They are intolerant of my belief that what they are doing is sick and wrong.

Now tell me how "closed minded" I am because I don't see it your way.

[il Padrino Ute]

Is it in the schools there?

Here it's just off campus with release but it's not in the schools.

It's off campus here in Utah as well and is called "released time". I had no idea that Nevada was the same.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Or how about LDS seminary? In my opinion, oraganized religion has no place in public school, yet we welcome seminary with open arms in Utah's high schools.

Good point... There is a reason why Seminaries are built on private property that just happens to be very near to most schools.

Students do not go to Seminary, they apply for "release time" and do not get school credit for the time they are away from the school. Release time is available to all students. I have a friend who took release time to take guitar lessons.

If GSA wants to buy property near the schools, get parent approval for student release, and teach kids that homosexuals and heterosexuals should just all get along without the heteros telling the homos that they're wrong... fine... Now they're out of the pubic schools.

[non sequitur]

Is it in the schools there?

Here it's just off campus with release but it's not in the schools.

I know at my daughter's school, the seminary building is right next door to the administration office and daughter has seminary during first period. There may be a line there, but it's a pretty thin one. I'm guessing if the GSA wanted to take their meetings off campus and get a "release" similar to seminary, they'd have a pretty tough time pulling it off.

[Archaea]

It's off campus here in Utah as well and is called "released time". I had no idea that Nevada was the same.

Ours is in zero period or last period off campus. The kids still must meet all academic requirements.

[Robin]

Anything goes as long as it is legal? Are you sure that's the standard? You're setting the bar pretty low.

How about a we like to masturbate while thinking about teacher club?

Should the "I like to eat my own feces club" have a faculty advisor? They could promote tolerance between the kids who eat their own turds and the kids who don't eat their own turds.

What about a neo-nazi group who believe that the world will be a much better place if everybody would just accept that whites are a superior race and should rule the world?

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is right or that it should be in our schools.

The legal standard wont work. The law isn't the high mark it is the absolute minimum we will accept. The idea is to create an enviroment where children can learn.

Does having a thousand special interest/political activist groups on campus really lend itself to that goal?



Significant? So what? What does the fact that it is a significant group have to do with whether or not it has a place in public schools?

Many groups have proven their significance thru numbers. That doesn't make them appropriate.

Hell... The KKK is a hugely significant group. Does that doesn't grant them a place at Springville HS?



Nice line... That's like when Snipe asks people "What is it about freedom that you hate?"

Try to villanize me but the truth is that I'm just not buying your line of crap.

Is it tolerance that the GSA is really after? Do they want to be tolerated or accepted? How do the kids in the GSA feel about the right wing nut jobs who think they're all going to hell? Do they feel like they should have a place in the school?

Get right down to the bare bones. The GSA and other groups like it want people to accept homosexuality as a natural and appropriate behavior. They are intolerant of my belief that what they are doing is sick and wrong.

Now tell me how "closed minded" I am because I don't see it your way.

I'm not going to call you closed minded at all. We both support the right of the Mormon kids to get together and form a 'club' that promotes negative views of the gay kids. All I am saying is that if the public schools will bend over backwards to give Mormon kids that kind of forum then the gay kids and their straight friends should be provided a similar forum where they can promote different views. At the end of the day I have enough confidence in the POV that I support that I am happy to let the GSA and any religious clubs compete for the minds of our kids. In the long run, I believe tolerance of gay people, and yes, even tolerance of the right of gay people to have gay sex, will win the day.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'm not going to call you closed minded at all. We both support the right of the Mormon kids to get together and form a 'club' that promotes negative views of the gay kids. All I am saying is that if the public schools will bend over backwards to give Mormon kids that kind of forum then the gay kids and their straight friends should be provided a similar forum where they can promote different views. At the end of the day I have enough confidence in the POV that I support that I am happy to let the GSA and an religious clubs to compete for the minds of our kids. In the long run, I believe tolerance of gay people, and yes, even tolerance of the right of gay people to have gay sex, will win the day.

Do schools outside of Utah bend over backwards to allow Mormon kids to have seminary? And in Utah, as already pointed out, LDS seminaries are not on campus and sudents are released from school to attend.

I will agree with NS that a GSA club would have a harder time getting the same permissions as seminary to do this, but the point is that it shouldn't be in a public school. Just like sminary isn't in the public school.

[Robin]

Do schools outside of Utah bend over backwards to allow Mormon kids to have seminary? And in Utah, as already pointed out, LDS seminaries are not on campus and sudents are released from school to attend.

I will agree with NS that a GSA club would have a harder time getting the same permissions as seminary to do this, but the point is that it shouldn't be in a public school. Just like sminary isn't in the public school.

Yea, I saw you write those arguments after I had already posted, and had to take a few steps back (and edit). There are plenty of religious clubs that exist with the full sanction of schools. I find MUCH of what gets discussed in those clubs to be incredibly offensive. But I will fight for the right of those clubs to exist.

If a public school is going to allow any clubs, I think that the current legal interpretation of the Constitution that allows GSA clubs is correct. What would you offer as an alternative for determining which clubs should be allowed in school?

[Archaea]

School clubs.

Why do we even have them?

How can we prove no public funds are used in utilities, school advocats or school security?

I'm against school clubs period.

School should be for rigorous academic instructions, athletic instruction, and music instruction. Leave politics and games out of it.

[il Padrino Ute]

Yea, I saw you write those arguments after I had already posted, and had to take a few steps back (and edit). There are plenty of religious clubs that exist with the full sanction of schools. I find MUCH of what gets discussed in those clubs to be incredibly offensive. But I will fight for the right of those clubs to exist.

If a public school is going to allow any clubs, I think that the current legal interpretation of the Constitution that allows GSA clubs is correct. What would you offer as an alternative for determining which clubs should be allowed in school?

My thoughts are that if a club is allowed to be in a public school, then all funding for it should be private. If public money is involved for a certain club, it shouldn't be allowed.

[Robin]

My thoughts are that if a club is allowed to be in a public school, then all funding for it should be private. If public money is involved for a certain club, it shouldn't be allowed.

That is the way it is for most clubs. They raise their own money. But they are allowed to sell brownies in the hall, and they are generally provided space to meet inside the school, and for the strong anti-gsa types, even this trivial amount of tax dollars (pennies) to pay for the electricity to the room, or the heat for the room, is too much.

[il Padrino Ute]

That is the way it is for most clubs. They raise their own money. But they are allowed to sell brownies in the hall, and they are generally provided space to meet inside the school, and for the strong anti-gsa types, even this trivial amount of tax dollars (pennies) to pay for the electricity to the room, or the heat for the room, is too much.

It is for me. It's on public property. That's the problem. They should take every club - not just the GSA - off the school property.

Either that or allow every club, including LDS seminary or other religious classes to hold classes in the school as well.

A better use of those tax payers dollars would be the purchase of paper and pencils for the students to use in class.

[Robin]

It is for me. It's on public property. That's the problem. They should take every club - not just the GSA - off the school property.

Either that or allow every club, including LDS seminary or other religious classes to hold classes in the school as well.

A better use of those tax payers dollars would be the purchase of paper and pencils for the students to use in class.

The educating capability of schools is enhanced by chess clubs, drama clubs, computer game programming clubs, athletic supporter clubs, bible study clubs and the gsa.

At least you are consistent, and want to dump them all. However I think that would be cutting off the nose.

[il Padrino Ute]

The educating capability of schools is enhanced by chess clubs, drama clubs, computer game programming clubs, athletic supporter clubs, bible study clubs and the gsa.

At least you are consistent, and want to dump them all. However I think that would be cutting off the nose.

I suppsoe this is a case where we'll have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

[RockyBalboa]

Or how about LDS seminary? In my opinion, oraganized religion has no place in public school, yet we welcome seminary with open arms in Utah's high schools.

Find me a single LDS Seminary that is in the Public schools.

You cannot.

[RockyBalboa]

Anything goes as long as it is legal? Are you sure that's the standard? You're setting the bar pretty low.

How about a we like to masturbate while thinking about teacher club?

Should the "I like to eat my own feces club" have a faculty advisor? They could promote tolerance between the kids who eat their own turds and the kids who don't eat their own turds.

What about a neo-nazi group who believe that the world will be a much better place if everybody would just accept that whites are a superior race and should rule the world?

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is right or that it should be in our schools.

The legal standard wont work. The law isn't the high mark it is the absolute minimum we will accept. The idea is to create an enviroment where children can learn.

Does having a thousand special interest/political activist groups on campus really lend itself to that goal?



Significant? So what? What does the fact that it is a significant group have to do with whether or not it has a place in public schools?

Many groups have proven their significance thru numbers. That doesn't make them appropriate.

Hell... The KKK is a hugely significant group. Does that doesn't grant them a place at Springville HS?



Nice line... That's like when Snipe asks people "What is it about freedom that you hate?"

Try to villanize me but the truth is that I'm just not buying your line of crap.

Is it tolerance that the GSA is really after? Do they want to be tolerated or accepted? How do the kids in the GSA feel about the right wing nut jobs who think they're all going to hell? Do they feel like they should have a place in the school?

Get right down to the bare bones. The GSA and other groups like it want people to accept homosexuality as a natural and appropriate behavior. They are intolerant of my belief that what they are doing is sick and wrong.

Now tell me how "closed minded" I am because I don't see it your way.

Hippie you're wasting your time with Robin. I mean this is a man who thinks it's a good idea to deliberately harm and abuse his son in exposing him to the very worst life has to offer in Burning Man and other examples cited by him.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

What would you offer as an alternative for determining which clubs should be allowed in school?

IMHO clubs should only be an extension of academic programs or competative sports/events. If there is a class or a sanctioned district "league" then it's all good. Otherwise it doesn't belong in public school...

The educating capability of schools is enhanced by chess clubs, drama clubs, computer game programming clubs

We're good up to here... Maybe not chess clubs

Football is a class.
Dance is a class.
Drama is a drama.
Band is a class.
Computer programing... I'm going to assume there is a computer programming class.
FFA, FHA and several others are associated with vo-ed programs.
Swim Team is a district event

athletic supporter clubs, bible study clubs and the gsa

Off campus... This is why we have churches, rec centers and other privately funded and non-profit groups.

[Robin]

Hippie you're wasting your time with Robin. I mean this is a man who thinks it's a good idea to deliberately harm and abuse his son in exposing him to the very worst life has to offer in Burning Man and other examples cited by him.

From calling MikeWaters a "Mormon Intellectual," to calling him "the very worst life has to offer," you, my friend, are all over the map.

[RockyBalboa]

From calling MikeWaters a "Mormon Intellectual," to calling him "the very worst life has to offer," you, my friend, are all over the map.

All over the map....this from a guy who revels in mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusing and manipulating his wife and child and then thinking it's funny.

I feel bad for them.

[fusnik11]

Can't we play nice here anymore?

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Can't we play nice here anymore?

Shut up or we'll steal your car again...

We thought you'd get the hint the first time.

[fusnik11]

Shut up or we'll steal your car again...

We thought you'd get the hint the first time.

I knew it was someone from around these parts, you bastards!

[mpfunk]

I knew it was someone from around these parts, you bastards!

We lawyers got to fund our education somehow, every little bit helps.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

I knew it was someone from around these parts, you bastards!

I can not tell a lie... It was MyBoyNoah...

He is surprisingly slippery and has a season pass for trans-atlantic flights.

[Robin]

Can't we play nice here anymore?

No worries fusnik. Rocky can enjoy the privilege of being the only person on my ignore list.

[RockyBalboa]

No worries fusnik. Rocky can enjoy the privilege of being the only person on my ignore list.

Ahh...the ignominy of Robin and his abusive treatment of those around him.

[ewth8tr]

All over the map....this from a guy who revels in mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusing and manipulating his wife and child and then thinking it's funny.

I feel bad for them.
come on man, that is going too far. While I would never make some of the decisions that Robin has, I don't think it is fair to say he is "mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusing and manipulating his wife and child".

[DirtyHippieUTE]

How about I hijack the thread back to the original topic...

ME... It's all about ME!

Ok... Really...

Do you see where I'm coming from Robin? I don't dispute the existance of a GSA, I don't care... I just think that nobody should push their political or idealogical agenda in public schools while using my tax dollars to pay for it.

Homosexuality is like any other "hot" issue out there. Those who agree with it want it to be a part of mainstream culture, those who disagree want it out. IMHO a high school is not the place for that debate.

Isn't there a Unitarian church nearby where they can meet? And the "key" club... Can't the local Rotarians sponsor those guys? Mrs. Hippie went to the Utah HS where the GSA thing blew up in everyone's face. The school board outlawed any non-academic clubs. Everybody thought it was such a tragedy... WHY?

Since when is the HS supposed to be the center of society and culture in our community? Mrs. Hippie was upset because they outlawed the "fencing club." Big freakin' whoop... The same kids went to a local fencing gym and told them what happened. The local gym decided to sponsor them and they met there from then on.

Guess what... THAT'S PERFECT! Let somebody else pay for the lights and heat and liability insurance. This is what community is for.

If you want to have a "service" oriented club then churches or other non-profit charities should be encouraged to let the kids in. In the long run, giving the NP a tax break or whatever you do to make them more inclined to take on a group like the GSA, will end up costing the people far less than doing it at the school and... IMHO... It will get done better.

[RockyBalboa]

come on man, that is going too far. While I would never make some of the decisions that Robin has, I don't think it is fair to say he is "mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusing and manipulating his wife and child".

I call taking a young boy to Burning Man and then bragging about it abusive and sickening. Sorry if you see otherwise.

[ewth8tr]

I call taking a young boy to Burning Man and then bragging about it abusive and sickening. Sorry if you see otherwise.
I certainly see it as wrong and potentially abusive, but what does that have to do with his wife? What is the reasoning of bringing it up? Will your insults change his mind and keep him from taking his son to burning man or move out of the ghetto? I just don't see the need to make it so personal.

[RockyBalboa]

I certainly see it as wrong and potentially abusive, but what does that have to do with his wife? What is the reasoning of bringing it up? Will your insults change his mind and keep him from taking his son to burning man or move out of the ghetto? I just don't see the need to make it so personal.

Anyone who is guileful enough to get someone to marry a person a like Robin.....that's abusive. Kind of TIC.

[Faith]

Anyone who is guileful enough to get someone to marry a person a like Robin.....that's abusive. Kind of TIC.

This comment seems extremely ignorant. Are you trying to be funny? I think you have no idea who Robin really is. I do. I have been married to him for over 10 years, and I am truly happily married, which is more than I can say for most people I know. I do not always agree with Robin, but he is always willing to listen to my perspective, and he always seeks to understand where I am coming from. He is one of the most communicative and open-minded people that I have ever met. He is also extremely compassionate and truly cares about his community. I am sad that he has not always been the kindest on this board, but I think that he is truly trying to change.

As for my child being abused, that is a most ridiculous claim! Yes, my son attends burning man. I don't think that anyone who has not attended burning man kids camp is qualified to pass judgement on it. That is like someone who has never attended a mormon meeting saying that anyone who brings their child to a mormon meeting is abusing them. My son also does not consistently participate in a sport outside of school (other than the basketball league he was part of last year, and his current swimming and dance lessons). My son does live in South Central Los Angeles, and attends a school in the Hood ( a dual-language immersion charter school). Our child is one of the healthiest, happiest, and well-adjusted children that I know. I cannot articulate the depth of love that both Robin and I have for our child. So please stop with the personal attacks and jabs.

[RockyBalboa]

This comment seems extremely ignorant. Are you trying to be funny? I think you have no idea who Robin really is. I do. I have been married to him for over 10 years, and I am truly happily married, which is more than I can say for most people I know. I do not always agree with Robin, but he is always willing to listen to my perspective, and he always seeks to understand where I am coming from. He is one of the most communicative and open-minded people that I have ever met. He is also extremely compassionate and truly cares about his community. I am sad that he has not always been the kindest on this board, but I think that he is truly trying to change.

As for my child being abused, that is a most ridiculous claim! Yes, my son attends burning man. I don't think that anyone who has not attended burning man kids camp is qualified to pass judgement on it. That is like someone who has never attended a mormon meeting saying that anyone who brings their child to a mormon meeting is abusing them. My son also does not consistently participate in a sport outside of school (other than the basketball league he was part of last year, and his current swimming and dance lessons). My son does live in South Central Los Angeles, and attends a school in the Hood ( a dual-language immersion charter school). Our child is one of the healthiest, happiest, and well-adjusted children that I know. I cannot articulate the depth of love that both Robin and I have for our child. So please stop with the personal attacks and jabs.

Oh okay....so since you approve of your son going to Burning Man then both of you are guilty of abusing your child. Thanks for clearing things up.

[Colly Wolly]

Oh okay....so since you approve of your son going to Burning Man then both of you are guilty of abusing your child. Thanks for clearing things up.

Robin to the rescue?

[Robin]

Robin to the rescue?

Faith can defend herself, and I have Rocky on ignore (unfortunately he isn't blocked when people like you quote him.)

I don't fight for Faith. I fight for the board. When mods start deleting other people's post to cover up their own shameful behavior, people need to say something about that to make it less common.

[Robin]

How about I hijack the thread back to the original topic...

ME... It's all about ME!

Ok... Really...

Do you see where I'm coming from Robin? I don't dispute the existance of a GSA, I don't care... I just think that nobody should push their political or idealogical agenda in public schools while using my tax dollars to pay for it.

Homosexuality is like any other "hot" issue out there. Those who agree with it want it to be a part of mainstream culture, those who disagree want it out. IMHO a high school is not the place for that debate.

Isn't there a Unitarian church nearby where they can meet? And the "key" club... Can't the local Rotarians sponsor those guys? Mrs. Hippie went to the Utah HS where the GSA thing blew up in everyone's face. The school board outlawed any non-academic clubs. Everybody thought it was such a tragedy... WHY?

Since when is the HS supposed to be the center of society and culture in our community? Mrs. Hippie was upset because they outlawed the "fencing club." Big freakin' whoop... The same kids went to a local fencing gym and told them what happened. The local gym decided to sponsor them and they met there from then on.

Guess what... THAT'S PERFECT! Let somebody else pay for the lights and heat and liability insurance. This is what community is for.

If you want to have a "service" oriented club then churches or other non-profit charities should be encouraged to let the kids in. In the long run, giving the NP a tax break or whatever you do to make them more inclined to take on a group like the GSA, will end up costing the people far less than doing it at the school and... IMHO... It will get done better.


Sorry Hippie, I got distracted.

It seems like our differnce of opinion have nothing to do with the GSA and everything to do with our views of the role of government.

I'm a liberal with a bit of Libertarianism in my blood.

Both liberals and conservatives look at a situation like this and say, "Long live freedom of expression and the free market of ideas."

But the liberal has this extra bit of dialogue go through his brain:

'Long live freedom of expression and the free market of ideas... but how strong can the free market of idea be if there are no forums in which to discuss and debate those ideas? The conservative has his answer to this question -- private parties will pay for the advocacy of their pet private projects. But is the free market of ideas better or worse when the only voices that find an audience are those that are backed by money? What about kids with good ideas, but who don't have money? Or who have ideas that are not popular with adults. Or how about the ideas that are really good, but simply need a long time to take root before they can work a mircaculous change in the world? The liberal's answer is simple. The free market of ideas benefits when there exist SOME forums where people can express their POV for FREE. But NOTHING is free! Every square inch of 'forum' is owned by someone or some group of people or the government. Okay then, if not free then how about damn cheap? How much does it cost for public libraries and public schools to lend their rooms to taxpaying citizens for public use? 75 CENTS! That is the total cost of electricity and heat and insurance for thrity minutes of use of a single classroom??? Now divide that by the number of people at the meeting and get a per/person rate. Hell, there may be no free forums, but together we can pool a TINY amount of resources and strengthen the free market of ideas in a significant way!'

Liberals look for ways that government can be used to make the world a better place for everyone, including the poorest among us.

I think that sums up our different views.

[DirtyHippieUTE]

Liberals look for ways that government can be used to make the world a better place for everyone, including the poorest among us.

You are correct... this is truly where we depart... I am a conservative when it comes to the role of government with a few exceptions.

I feel the government should step in if and only if no other group can (I get strung up by my conservative friends when I say health insurance is becoming one of those situations). However, in this case I think there are other groups who are ready and willing to fulfill the need. Further, I think they would do a MUCH better job.

Not that Faith is doing a "bad" job, but how much more would she be able to do or how much more freedom from red tape would she enjoy if she were a volunteer at a local "Safe Zone" kind of establishment.

[Cali Coug]

Umm, Rocky-what happened to this???


I'm turning over a new leaf
Okay, okay...I know I've said this before but I'm really dissapointed with the tone of some my posts over the past couple weeks.

No excuses.

Time to be better than I have been.

To NS, Robin, Fusnik, MikeWaters, HoyaCoug and others I've offended I apologize.

I realize I need to be nicer sometimes. Sorry. I'll work on being more open minded.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3609&highlight=apologize

Which of the following in this thread alone exemplifies your "new leaf?"

Hippie you're wasting your time with Robin. I mean this is a man who thinks it's a good idea to deliberately harm and abuse his son in exposing him to the very worst life has to offer in Burning Man and other examples cited by him.


All over the map....this from a guy who revels in mentally, emotionally and spiritually abusing and manipulating his wife and child and then thinking it's funny.

I feel bad for them.


Ahh...the ignominy of Robin and his abusive treatment of those around him.


I call taking a young boy to Burning Man and then bragging about it abusive and sickening. Sorry if you see otherwise.


Anyone who is guileful enough to get someone to marry a person a like Robin.....that's abusive. Kind of TIC.


Oh okay....so since you approve of your son going to Burning Man then both of you are guilty of abusing your child. Thanks for clearing things up.


What is the point of having a discussion about something if all you are going to do is try to insult the other parties to the discussion (namely Robin)?


Seriously, everyone- relax and try to have an honest conversation. The thread began badly with sarcasm in the first post and just got worse from there. Why are we restarting a thread if the only real purpose to the thread is to show the other side they are stupid?

Hard to see how this thread is going to be an upgrade from the other one that was deleted by a person who really flew off the handle.

[RockyBalboa]

Hoya, you are the LAST person on this board who should ever be imploring someone to have an honest conversation.

By the way.....welcome back. :)

[Cali Coug]

Hoya, you are the LAST person on this board who should ever be imploring someone to have an honest conversation.

By the way.....welcome back. :)


I simply don't understand your point. Just because you disagree with what I am saying doesn't mean I am being dishonest in saying it.

[Archaea]

Hoya, you are the LAST person on this board who should ever be imploring someone to have an honest conversation.

By the way.....welcome back. :)

Rocky, this isn't going any where, let's find something else we can disagree upon, like what's wrong with our CBs. ;)

Hoya's back, and all's good.

[RockyBalboa]

Rocky, this isn't going any where, let's find something else we can disagree upon, like what's wrong with our CBs. ;)

Hoya's back, and all's good.

Agreed and my bad. I welcome Hoya back with open arms.

Actually I don't know that you and I will find much disagreement in our CB's...lol....I'm not too confident of their performance until I'm proven otherwise.