this Frankie Andreu rumor...

[MikeWaters]

interesting that Armstrong doesn't 1) trot out Andreu and his wife to deny it, or 2) slam Andreu as a liar, or 3) say that Andreu never said what he said...

But rather trots out a doctor....wasn't clear to me that this was THE doctor that Armstrong talked to with regard to Andreu's allegation.

[creekster]

I assume yuou saw my response to all this on CB? I am too lazy to re-type, re-post, cut & paste etc., but it is under your posts.

[realtall]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/06/23/bc.cyc.armstrong.doping.ap/index.html?cnn=yes


In cross examination transcripts released by Armstrong's lawyer, Betsy Andreu could not identify the doctor she said Armstrong spoke to, but said it was not Nichols or either of Armstrong's other primary physicians. Nichols' affidavit said it was unlikely he would not have been at the meeting she described.
"Though I was not Lance Armstrong's sole physician, I was responsible for the majority of his treatment and would have been present at every large meeting where discussions took place or decisions were made," Nichols said.





Le Monde reported that Frankie Andreu gave sworn testimony in October with the same allegations as his wife.
But the newspaper reported the Andreus' account was denied by a third person, Stephanie McIlvain, a friend of Armstrong's who was also at the session with the doctor.
She testified that she did not hear Armstrong make such an admission.
"There were probably 10 people in the room. Betsy was apparently the only one that recalls this alleged incident," said Herman, Armstrong's attorney.



This 'get Lance' act that the French keep pulling is getting old.

[MikeWaters]

10 people in the room, and no one can remember who the doctor is?

So is the world going to crumble when we learn, eventually, that Lance used a prohibited substance at least once?

[realtall]

10 people in the room, and no one can remember who the doctor is?

So is the world going to crumble when we learn, eventually, that Lance used a prohibited substance at least once?


Apparently not the one giving the testimony. There was at least one who was present, though, in a meeting who gave an account as to what wasn't said. Its all rather vague. The lady's testimony, I mean. She says that she heard it in a meeting with a dr whose name she cannot remember, the primary physician says he would have been present at all meetings and he heard nothing about it, and a witness recalls hearing the question but not hearing anything unusual in the answer.


I do not hold Lance above all reproach but at the same time I need to see something resembling evidence before I am just going to assume that he was a bike riding balco repository. The French publishing another unsubstantiated article accusing Lance of doping isn't it, either.

[MikeWaters]

I agree it is not anything to indict Lance.

Now we have at least 3 people in Lance's inner circle who say he has either admitted to doping, or that they were aware of his doping. And these don't appear to be press-seeking persons. Lance may say they all have axes to grind, but at a certain point, with the drug doctor in the background, we may start to notice all the smoke in the room.

[il Padrino Ute]

In my nationalistic opinion, all this just smacks of intense jealousy by the French that an American - the country the French elitists love to hate - dominated their tour like nobody ever has.

[creekster]

There are a few things that suggest to me he doped (which is a very broad term, including a lot of different substances):

1. He won the TdF 7 times in a row which no one else has done and only the great Eddy M. could even claim was a possibility (trust me on this, I don't have time to go over why Eddy might have won 7 but for the French tendency to dislike non-French winners). This in and of itself is borderline miraculous.

2. He won 7 times in an era where it has been shown that many others were doping. IOW, even though a fair few of the best bike riders in the world were on drugs, post-cancer LA kicked their butts 7 years in a row.

3. He worked with Michel Ferrari, the Dr. to whom Mike was referring. Ferrari is an advocate of EPO use and harvesting one's own blood cells for use in races. He is a nut and the methods he advocates (but has not used that often) are frequently illegal. To be fair, he is also an expert at training and nutirtion to enhance the blood's natural oxygen cpacity, but LA hanging around him and then begin angry at being accused of doping is like someone being at a bar all night long and then being surprised when people think you might have been drinking.

OTOH, there are many things that to me suggest he did not dope. I am not sure. It is certainly possible and I can easily see why people think it is likely, but it has not come close to being proven and the Andreus' statements are a bit silly.

First, they refer to Pre-cancer and pre-TdF events. IOW, so what?

Second, it doesn't follow. Here's the scene: LA is about to begin chemo; he has been told he has about a 50% chance of dying, and that it might even be worse than that. According to the Andreus at this point, the Dr. walks in the room and in front of appprox. 10 people (really, that's what they say) asks LA flat out if he has taken perfromance enhacning/illegal drugs, to which LA replies, in front of all these witnesses (according to the Andreus) that he took EPO, HGH, Steroids and some other stuff.

Without listneing to anyone else, this sounds plausible with the exception of the doctor just waltzing in and asking this sort fo confidential question in front of 10 other people. Listen to other witnesses, however:

LA: Denies he ever took these things and denies he ever said he took them prior to Chemo in egneral and in this conversation in particular.

Other witness in room: Denies, under oath (like the Andreus) that she heard anything like what the Andreus claim. No conversation whatsoever between doctor and LA about illicit drugs. She DOES recall the question, but says LA said he only drinks beer, which is also what LA says.

The Docotr: Denies under oath that LA ever said he took drugs and MOREOVER, says there is no refernce to pre-cancer treatment use of EPO, HGH, Steroids etc., in any of the medical rcords. He also says that he would have noted this in the record and that it was the practice of all of his colleagues to note such information inthe patient's records, as I am sure you, Mike, would expect to happen. This guy is LA's oncologist and says he did have a conversation with LA on the very day the Andreus claim they heard LA admit drug use. Nothing like this is recorded in LA's medical records

Additionally, the tribunal (I can't recall if it was a judge, jury or an arbitration panel, but if you google it you can find out) that listened to all this testimony awarded victory to LA and in order to do so, had to conclude that the Andreus' version of events was not credible, for an admission of the sort they assert took place would have likely made LA lose the case, if it was beleived. Look, if you werre about to die, wouldn't you come clean about your drug use to help your oncologist give you treatmnet? At that point he wasn;t trying to win a race, he was trying to live for more than a few months. Remember, the docotr says there is no refernce anywhere in his cancer treatment records to use of illegal drugs.

This doesn't rpvoe that LA DIDN'T tkae drugs, obviously, but the credibility of the ANdreus is not very high.