Interview with Sterling McMurrin

[MikeWaters]

SM is featured in the David O. McKay biography. Interesting read.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/newell_mcmurrin.shtml

Here's a quote that I think applies to cougarboard and cougarguard.

The very fact that Sunstone exists, and I think it is a wonderful thing--these Sunstone affairs--the very fact that it exists shows the weakness in the church, that people can't go to church and say what they think. They have to get out somewhere else to say what they think. For a long time there were these so-called church history groups meeting. And I guess there still are. They were all over the church because people wanted to go somewhere where they could say what they thought and communicate with others honestly. I am going to have to tell you a little story.

I wouldn't call it a "weakness" per se, or maybe I would, not sure. But I do wish that somehow I had the opportunity to discuss more things than I actually get to do at church. I think that's why many of us flock to these forums. To have an expanded sense of what it means to be part of a LDS community.

[Archaea]

but if I were in leadership, I don't know what tact I would take.

Things can get out of control, with people focusing upon the negative thereby concluding there is no truth, no positives.

That's what I find fascinating about some of the discussions in the McKay book: you see glimpses of how differing Apostles thought. I tend to like Hugh B. Brown's approaches to things from what I'm reading. The stern guys are probably necessary but don't appeal to my nature as much.

[MikeWaters]

I had the same thought. That I liked Hugh B. Brown, and how come I didn't know much about him?

[SeattleUte]

The very fact that Sunstone exists, and I think it is a wonderful thing--these Sunstone affairs--the very fact that it exists shows the weakness in the church, that people can't go to church and say what they think. They have to get out somewhere else to say what they think. For a long time there were these so-called church history groups meeting. And I guess there still are. They were all over the church because people wanted to go somewhere where they could say what they thought and communicate with others honestly. I am going to have to tell you a little story.

I always have admired Sterling McMurrin; he was a fine fellow. (My signature quotes him on Utefans.) But he's asking too much of the LDS Church, any organized religion; it's against their very nature, at a cellular level. As the Grand Inquisitor told the Savior in the Dostoyevski's "The Brothers Karamozov" (Dostoyevski was a deeply religious man deeply ambivalent about the Enlightenment, though ultimately at odds with the Orthodox Church):

"There are three forces, only three, on this earth that can overcome and capture once and for all the concience of these feeble, undisciplined, creatures, so as to give them happiness. These forces are miracle, mystery, and authority. . . . We have corrected Your work and have now founded it on miracle, mystery, and authority. And men rejoice at being led like cattle again, with the terrible gift of freedom that brought them so much suffering removed from them."

Along these same lines, here's an interesting essay I recently found on the Internet by the famous 19th century British poet and philospher Matthew Arnold, regarding the contrasting qualities of and tension occurring between Hellenism (i.e., Greek philosophy) and "Hebreaism" (by his definition embracing Christianity), the two intellectual/spiritual movements that made Western Civilization (sharing the same stated objective, i.e., man's perfection, though by radically different means):

<http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/4.html>

(Warning, it's a little turgid; it gets more readable with the second paragraph.) As he notes, for sixteen hundred years Hebreaism appeared triumphant, but (and this is more clear today than in Arnold's time 140 years ago) in our modern world the tables have turned.

[SteelBlue]

I had the same thought. That I liked Hugh B. Brown, and how come I didn't know much about him?

I told you that you would! I don't know if you've finished the book yet, but the longer you read, the more you'll like him. Someone needs to write that man's biography because he had an amazing amount of "progressive" influence on the modern day church.

[Archaea]

but we've just not read it.

He was quite popular when he lived as I remember just as I was becoming a member people quoting him all the time.

[creekster]

a quotation that was supposedly from Hugh B. Brown. I wrote it in the lined pages in my KJV Bible and remember it to this day. He was attributed with the statement that : "We are not as concerned with what your thoughts are as we are that you have thoughts." At the time I felt like this statement seemed somewhat radical and even dangerous (I was young and it was a long time ago) and I was suspicious that the attribution was inaccurate or fictitious, but I liked the sentiment.

I have since tracked down the more accurate version, which I understand is "The church is not so much concerned with whether the thoughts of its members are orthodox or heterodox as it is that they shall have thoughts." Don't misunderstand, I am a believing member, but I think it unlikely that this statement would be given in a pronouncement of any type by a member of the 12 today. Maybe this is because we are closer to the last of days and the last thing we need in this era of permissiveness and shallow critical thinking passing for deep philosophy is to encourage members to wander; maybe it is becasue the pronouncements of the bretheren are, like the WOW, tailored to the weakest among us. I don't know. Nonetheless, Hugh B. Brown has always been one of my favorites and I am glad there is a place like Cougarguard wherre we can occassionally discuss these things.

Here is a link to his memoirs.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1560851236/rpcman/103-9571681-9770209

[Milton]

you've all convinced me to go buy the book now. Hope the Amazon link is working.

I've also rummaged through some of our church books (we recently moved) and found "An Abundant Life: The memoirs of Hugh B. Brown". My wife says it's a great but short read. Maybe a book list candidate...

(edit: I just now noticed creekster's link to above mentioned book; sorry for the repeat)