Feed bag

[Quisqueyano]

I am just curious what everybody does to keep the carbs flowing on the longer rides.
Personally, I eat a power bar pre-ride or run. Then a tube of chocolate GU every 30 minutes during. It seems to work pretty well. I have never had a major bonk. But I am always looking to be more efficient.
Anyone. Archea, I know you have an anser to this question.

[Archaea]

Sugars usually only help for about ninety minutes to two hours. After that, you need to replenish proteins.

I have been experimenting with Perpetuum mixed with various other supplements. Perpetuum has a multiple hour formula, which gets very thick, doesn't taste very good, but replenishes caloric needs.

Remember you can burn 800 to 1000 calories but can only absorb much less than that. You need to load prior to workouts.

If you've never bonked, you've never pushed yourself to the limits. Bonking is important to know limits.

What does one do to work a century hard? What about a double century? What about a hard day of mountain climbing with an excess of 10,000 feet of climbing.

If somebody states he has never bonked, then he has never worked hard. Every guy on a bike has bonked. I bonk all the time, pushing myself to my limits.

[Quisqueyano]

You say that you are experimentiing with this perpetuum. I am not familiar with it. Is it a drink? I know there are several brand of protein drinks on the market.
On my longer rides I do eat a protein bar about every 60 minutes.
The sugar keeps me going just fine other wise.
\What about post ride revovery? I know of lots of other products for that. But the new research is saying that chocolate milk is just as effective.
As for "bonking", I guess we define it differently.

[Archaea]

products which also produces Recoverite.

Most important is getting protein or dirty protein within twenty minutes of completing the workout.

I eat turkey breast, sometimes with rice and corn after a long ride.

How long will you keep your heartrate near lacktate threshholds? If you do it long enough, you will bonk.

[Quisqueyano]

How long I keep my heart rate at lactate threshholds is usually determined by my course. Some days I ride American Fork canyon. Which is a long, slow climb. I will come out of the saddle and pound for a few minutes, then recover.
Other routes have shorter but much steeper climbs that last for 2 to 3 minutes.
My ride last saturday was a long, mostly flat loop. I didn't really hammer down til the last 3 or 4 miles.
I guess what i'm saing is that I am probably not as scientific as I could be. When i sprint, I go as hard as I can til I can't anymore. Same with climbs.

[bluegoose]

Pre-ride, I often will eat 1 or 2 energy or fruit bars.

During a ride, typically the same. I find that fruit bars will do just fine for sustaining glycogen levels if taken on a regular basis, say every 30-45 minutes. On more intense rides lasting more than 3 hours, I've found that I also do much better with eating something specifically to replace electrolytes, namely Sodium and Potassium. Tablets work okay in a pinch, but a handful of crackers also does just fine. Some exercise drinks do well in this area, but I find myself more in need of water on a long ride, so I save my bottles for that and just pack a bag of crackers or whatever in the jersey pockets to tie me over.

As far as post-ride recovery, I was also very interested to read recently that chocolate milk contains most of what the body needs to recover, namely an appropriate blend of carbs and proteins. And of course, it is liquid which absorbs much better when the gastrointestinals may not be working full speed yet. I can drink choco milk like its going out of style after a hard workout, so that was very good news to me. A nice bowl of cereal also tastes like manna from heaven after a hard ride.

[Quisqueyano]

I guess i always thought that a fruit bar takes too long to process to be very effective. But I guess on a ride lating more than a couple of hours, that doesn't really matter. I like the GU because it is a quick shot of sugar. it tends to make itself known in a few minutes.
My real problem is with long runs. I have to be vry careful what i eat before or during a long run because it tends to give me real stomach problems. Which is bad when you are several miles from home. I am still trying to tweak that whole process. Today I am planning to run up Big Cottonwood canyon again. My routine has been a power bar an hour before the run and a gel packet as needed. I run with a water bottle to stay hydrated.
Any suggestions there?

[Archaea]

EAt oatmeal before, some protein ninety minutes before, and during run, try Enervitene, it has a cola flavor to die for, and some other nuts during the run.

[bluegoose]

Thats a very good question about the running.

I've never run more than about 90 minutes, so I've never really had to eat while running.

A couple of years ago my father in law did the Wasatch 100 and had a terrible time getting anything done after about 50 miles. NOt even gu or gatorade. He tried everything imaginable, but I think he just got started eating too late, after the first feed stop at 25 miles.

As a result, he totally bonked at 83 miles and literally could not take another forward step after that. Took his kidneys about 2 weeks to fully recover and funciton properly. Fun stuff, eh.

[Quisqueyano]

All this talk kind of makes you ask why we do this to ourselves. I think we are all just sick.
Arch, I'll take your advice. Although I can't do nuts during a run. They tear me up inside. I would hate to see what they do to me when I am several miles up the canyon.

[Archaea]

who for example ran 167 miles last week.

We did speed work today, he did about 28; I did 12 miles of speed work.

[Quisqueyano]

Ultra runners are wired wrong.
I remember reading an article about Dean Karmazez(sp). He said he carries a cell phone with him and orders pizza mid run. Tells the delivery guy more or less where he will be. Eats the whole thing while he runs.

[SteelBlue]

Ultra runners are wired wrong.
I remember reading an article about Dean Karmazez(sp). He said he carries a cell phone with him and orders pizza mid run. Tells the delivery guy more or less where he will be. Eats the whole thing while he runs.

I read an article about him in which he described hallucinations about food during his runs. He said he reaches a point where it seems perfectly normal for him to be jogging alongside a talking hamburger.

[creekster]

I read an article about him in which he described hallucinations about food during his runs. He said he reaches a point where it seems perfectly normal for him to be jogging alongside a talking hamburger.

So what's wrong with that? I suppose you've never had a conversation with a Big Mac?

[Archaea]

My friend knows Dean Karnasas (sp?) and he has spoken of the delusions occuring after sleep deprivations and horrific workouts.

I hate running when I talk to these guys.

[Quisqueyano]

I read an article about him in which he described hallucinations about food during his runs. He said he reaches a point where it seems perfectly normal for him to be jogging alongside a talking hamburger.

I think we read the same thing. Runners world last summer I think.
What kills me is there is a woman that consitstently kicks his butt.
With that said, I am going running.Back in a while.

[SteelBlue]

I think we read the same thing. Runners world last summer I think.
What kills me is there is a woman that consitstently kicks his butt.
With that said, I am going running.Back in a while.

I think women are the best ultra runners because they have a higher body fat.

[Quisqueyano]

back to the fueling topic.
I just dod an 8 mile run. I ran along Wasatch. If you are familiar with it, you know there are lots of hills.
Here is what i have eaten today:
A banana
A protein bar
90 minutes before the run, a power bar
30 minutes in, a tube of GU.
Even at that, I had some tomach issues. But I felt pretty good. By mile 7, I was feeling hungry.
I have had another protein bar and a banana since the run.
I only share this so you know how tricky it is for me to get the right combinations. I basically need to run on an empty stomach or I am miserable.

[creekster]

The farthest I have ever run is ~7 miles (If any of you are familiar, it was the Bay to breakers in SF) so fueling was not an issue.

On bikes, I usually have no probelm as long as it is 40 miles or less. For centuries, or longer rides, I like to nibble. I usually have 1/2 a powerbar just before I start and then take a bite or two of a bar every 10-15 miles. If it is a century, there is usually a lunch or food stop somewhere in the middle where I get something else.

For me the key seems ot be slow and steady consumption. When I have bonked, I bonk hard and it is really unpleasant. Once, when younger and stupid, I was about 45 miles into a ride I had started in the morning without breakfast and bringing nothing but a little water. I was oging up a rather small hill and I bonked hard. It was so bad I had to stop, get off the bike and sit down on the side of the road for about 20 minutes to let my body catch up. Even then I was wasted for a while.

[Archaea]

but then again I once did a century on one bottle and no food, so mile 90 was extraordinarily unpleasant.

Last year, Tour de Tucson was so bad at mile 100, old fat guys passed. I was out of shape and raced it until I bonked. It was unpleasant. Then again there was our Tour de Fire at mile 80 but somehow I recovered and finished the whole 138, with my buddy bonking. In Tucson I went from a 24 mph average to a 10 mph where I wanted to walk in. I went from sub 5 hour to a 5 hour 30 because I was dead to the world.

With that stated, I don't need water or food for less than ten miles. It's too short a distance for the effects of food and water to come into play.

This morning was 13 miles, including warm up and warm down, and those matters didn't matter. They mattered later on now during the day.

And they matter at the end of a triathlon, so eating on the bike is essential but I sense that Perpetuum may solve my nutritional needs. The main thing occurring for me is a power outage and then total lack of energy.

However, for most activities under two hours I don't need anything. After three hours it becomes essential.

[Quisqueyano]

Ride days are a whole different story. I eat all day because I don't have the stomach problems that running gives me.Then when I am on the bike, for rides over an hour, I use gels and power bars at about 30 minute intervals.
But on the run days, If I know I will be out for a while, I need to go light all day, try and eat and drink enough uring the run, then pound the calories after.

[MikeWaters]

I've never had a serious bonk where I could at least ride 10mph or so.

My first century, I was on pace to do sub 5hr, and then at mile 90 or so I bonked. Could only ride 15mph. I was dehydrated. Luckily my riding partner gave me part of a bottle.

For me, bonking is when I crack. When I hit a hill, for example, and can't hang with the group anymore.